Mylo.X.
Quantum Scribe
An obituray notice printed in an Egyptian newspaper called al-Ward, in December 2001 seems to suggest otherwise.
Bin Laden's Obituary Notice - PaulCraigRoberts.org
Bin Laden's Obituary Notice - PaulCraigRoberts.org
Did Navy Seals really kill Osama bin Laden in 2011?
- Thread starter Mylo.X.
- Start date
Mylo.X.
Quantum Scribe
Some valid points made at the end.
The Killing of Osama bin Laden was an “American Hoax” | Global Research
The Killing of Osama bin Laden was an “American Hoax” | Global Research
gridwerk
Temporal Novice
New guy here, this is my inaugural post so I'll keep it light.
After spending a good amount of my free time following conspiracy theories and other such Modern American Mythologies it has become my opinion that whenever an artical quotes a source "who asks to remain anonymous" or is "speaking on the condition of anonymity" the statement that follows is typically completely fabricated. Maybe not always and maybe I'm cynical but it just seems like no one puts their name on any of the really important statements anymore. The great book of quotes a hundred years from now will all be attributed to anonymous/unknown.
Granted I understand you can get killed in that part of the world for saying such things but if a person is going to risk their life merely for a passing comment then why not take some real risk and add some pics of the body as proof- especially since a few scant months prior the guy was blamed for the worst attack on American soil. To quote Ed Rooney (Ferris Bueller): "Yeah, that's right, just roll her old bones on over here, and I'll dig up your daughter. You know that's school policy".
Just my .02 on that.
After spending a good amount of my free time following conspiracy theories and other such Modern American Mythologies it has become my opinion that whenever an artical quotes a source "who asks to remain anonymous" or is "speaking on the condition of anonymity" the statement that follows is typically completely fabricated. Maybe not always and maybe I'm cynical but it just seems like no one puts their name on any of the really important statements anymore. The great book of quotes a hundred years from now will all be attributed to anonymous/unknown.
Granted I understand you can get killed in that part of the world for saying such things but if a person is going to risk their life merely for a passing comment then why not take some real risk and add some pics of the body as proof- especially since a few scant months prior the guy was blamed for the worst attack on American soil. To quote Ed Rooney (Ferris Bueller): "Yeah, that's right, just roll her old bones on over here, and I'll dig up your daughter. You know that's school policy".
Just my .02 on that.
Darby
Epochal Historian
gridwerk,
Since the 1970's this is how much journalism has changed. Below is a quote from the movie script for All the President's Men which is basically a direct quote from Woodward and Bernstein's book of the same title:
Woodward makes is clear that Bradlee did not want and did not trust anonymous
sources. How things have changed.
Since the 1970's this is how much journalism has changed. Below is a quote from the movie script for All the President's Men which is basically a direct quote from Woodward and Bernstein's book of the same title:
The WashingtonPost wanted to hang President Nixon. But Bradlee also wanted to make sure that ThePost had the story right and could back it up with facts. In the book
Woodward makes is clear that Bradlee did not want and did not trust anonymous
sources. How things have changed.
Time Will Wipe Us Out1
Chrono Cadet
Yes.
These links do nothing to discredit the official story. I am immediately very, very skeptical of any article that tries to convince me of a position when it first lays in as much detail as possible that the opposing party has lied before. In fact, the author encourages you to keep this in the forefront of your mind. Don't bother to question who the author is, what his motives are, or what his trustworthyness is.
Not to mention, this article does confirm that people were dropped from a helicopter into a secretive compound in Pakistan. What for? There is no explanation.
On top of it all, would anybody care to explain why the government would lie about the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011? If anything, this would reduce the willingness of American people to continue to support our foreign wars. It was too far away from the 2012 election to hold much sway. What is the motivation? For fun?
Don't keep your mind so open that your brains spill out.
Moz
These links do nothing to discredit the official story. I am immediately very, very skeptical of any article that tries to convince me of a position when it first lays in as much detail as possible that the opposing party has lied before. In fact, the author encourages you to keep this in the forefront of your mind. Don't bother to question who the author is, what his motives are, or what his trustworthyness is.
Not to mention, this article does confirm that people were dropped from a helicopter into a secretive compound in Pakistan. What for? There is no explanation.
On top of it all, would anybody care to explain why the government would lie about the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011? If anything, this would reduce the willingness of American people to continue to support our foreign wars. It was too far away from the 2012 election to hold much sway. What is the motivation? For fun?
Don't keep your mind so open that your brains spill out.
Moz
Darby
Epochal Historian
Good job.One way to approach the article (or any article for that matter) is to open it, highlight it and copy it to a Word document. Then highlight and delete everything that it unsupported opinion, irrelevant or "filler". Then see what you have left. The only thing left should be whatever facts that were presented.
The technical name is "reading for content" or "putting on the bullshit goggles".
Time Will Wipe Us Out1
Chrono Cadet
Bhutto clearly misspoke when she aid Omar Sheik murdered Osama bin Laden. Omar Sheikh is only famous for murdering American Daniel Pearl in 2002 by beheading. And had been incarcerated for it since 2002. Additionally, if you watch the whole interview, Bhutto refers to Osama bin Laden alive multiple times.
If Osama bin Laden had been definitely murdered, it would have been a huge news story somewhere.
If Osama bin Laden had been definitely murdered, it would have been a huge news story somewhere.
Mylo.X.
Quantum Scribe
Can you post a link to the whole interview, as I cannot seem to find it. Thanks.
Additionally, do you have any rebuttal to this?:
"al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden’s Death and Funeral 10 days ago
Islamabad -"
A Funeral Notice for Osama bin Laden was published on December 26, 2001, in the Egyptian newspaper al-Ward. An English translation is provided below. Anyone fluent in Arabic is invited to verify or correct the translation. This item was sent to me from a reader abroad.
Additionally, do you have any rebuttal to this?:
"al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden’s Death and Funeral 10 days ago
Islamabad -"
A Funeral Notice for Osama bin Laden was published on December 26, 2001, in the Egyptian newspaper al-Ward. An English translation is provided below. Anyone fluent in Arabic is invited to verify or correct the translation. This item was sent to me from a reader abroad.
Mylo.X.
I decided to take a look at the name Osama bin Laden and see if it was common in the Arab world, like James, or Smith, or Johnson are in America. It appears the bin Laden family is a large family, the name Osama is common, but I didn't find anyone else with that exact name.
But, I did find this. Perhaps it is related.
Osama’s Will, Arabic Names, and Romanization of Arabic
Posted on 5/12/2011 by Curzon
Osama’s “Will” was recently released by a Kuwaiti newspaper. The title of the document is misleading — a will, as a document that distributes assets and property, is not recognized in Islam, as inheritance must take place in accordance with Shariah principles. The document is in fact a final message to his children (not to join Al Qaeda) and wives (don’t remarry!). It was written in December 2001 — when Osama was on the run in Afghanistan and when he thought he might be killed. Notably, there is no message or mention of people such as Mullah Omar or Ayman Al Zawahiri, his comrades in arms in Afghanistan.
Osama’s Will, Arabic Names, and Romanization of Arabic | ComingAnarchy.com
I decided to take a look at the name Osama bin Laden and see if it was common in the Arab world, like James, or Smith, or Johnson are in America. It appears the bin Laden family is a large family, the name Osama is common, but I didn't find anyone else with that exact name.
But, I did find this. Perhaps it is related.
Osama’s Will, Arabic Names, and Romanization of Arabic
Posted on 5/12/2011 by Curzon
Osama’s “Will” was recently released by a Kuwaiti newspaper. The title of the document is misleading — a will, as a document that distributes assets and property, is not recognized in Islam, as inheritance must take place in accordance with Shariah principles. The document is in fact a final message to his children (not to join Al Qaeda) and wives (don’t remarry!). It was written in December 2001 — when Osama was on the run in Afghanistan and when he thought he might be killed. Notably, there is no message or mention of people such as Mullah Omar or Ayman Al Zawahiri, his comrades in arms in Afghanistan.
Osama’s Will, Arabic Names, and Romanization of Arabic | ComingAnarchy.com
Mylo.X.
Quantum Scribe
Thanks for the info GPA. I find it interesting that there have been reports of Osama Bin Laden's death in 2001 that was posted pre-2011. I also remember reading a newspaper interview with one of the many sons of Osama bin Laden who indicated that his dad had died. Even though this is a vague memory, I remember reading it before the birth of my children, which was pre-2011.
I am suspicious of the official "story" that has been fed to us by the media, of Bin Laden being killed by Navy Seals in 2011, and his body being disposed of in some unknown location in the sea.
I am suspicious of the official "story" that has been fed to us by the media, of Bin Laden being killed by Navy Seals in 2011, and his body being disposed of in some unknown location in the sea.
Time Will Wipe Us Out1
Chrono Cadet
I am not suspicious of the official story because I can see no reason to lie.
On the other hand, I could see why one of Osama bin Laden's children would announce his death. If taken seriously, the U.S. would have stopped pursuing him.
However, by claiming that Osama bin Laden was slain in 2011, President Obama would have put himself in a precarious situation were it not true. If Osama bin Laden shows up alive, or if somebody in al Qaeda brought the definitive proof that Osama bin Laden had already died, President Obama would have surely lost in 2012. No question.
Not to mention, al Qaeda officially responded to the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011. A message signed by the "General Leadership" was sent out speaking about how our joy would soon turn to sorrow and that killing bin Laden would not kill that which he fought for.
Moz
P.S. I will find the interview when I get home. Youtube is not allowed at work.
On the other hand, I could see why one of Osama bin Laden's children would announce his death. If taken seriously, the U.S. would have stopped pursuing him.
However, by claiming that Osama bin Laden was slain in 2011, President Obama would have put himself in a precarious situation were it not true. If Osama bin Laden shows up alive, or if somebody in al Qaeda brought the definitive proof that Osama bin Laden had already died, President Obama would have surely lost in 2012. No question.
Not to mention, al Qaeda officially responded to the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011. A message signed by the "General Leadership" was sent out speaking about how our joy would soon turn to sorrow and that killing bin Laden would not kill that which he fought for.
Moz
P.S. I will find the interview when I get home. Youtube is not allowed at work.
I tend to believe that the Navy Seals did indeed kill Osama Bin Laden in 2011, but I can understand why this was debated by some. We didn't acutally see the body, not that I would want to. But there have been interviews some of which have been pretty graphic as to what went down. Also, if Bin Laden died back in December of 2001 I think I remember hearing something about ths as well, but it turned out to not be true. In other words the reports that he died in Egypt had been false or that what was said here in the United States. Yes, some wondered if he relaly was dead and Al Qaeda was lying that he was alive and using old videoes of him but this was never actually confirmed.
PeteHubinsky
Temporal Novice
I think the only point in Osama bin Laden's death is in revenge for the 9/11 attacks. He ceased to play a leading role in Al Qaeda, as they naturally shifted the power to other members because the heat was on bin Laden. Whether it was faked or not by the Navy SEALs isn't incredibly important except for the fact that it would indicate mass deception by the Obama administration. The military has to take all kinds of measures for all kinds of reasons involving deception on many different levels. If it was advantageous for Osama bin Laden's death to be faked, the question is, to who and why?
