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KerrTexas
Timekeeper
Re: Hap
Then you are not a firm deist?
Then you are not a firm deist?
God?
- Thread starter KerrTexas
- Start date
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Re: Scientifically sound Bible...
Non-linear response time on this one.
It took awhile for my soul to process the reply.
3 Layers - Federal, State, Local
3 Components - Executive, Legislative, Judicial
There....that's a little more teaching for ya!
In fact, I have found that each time I take on teaching a course that I have not taught before, I learn even more about that topic and become more well-versed in it than I was before I taught the course. In the quarter just past I taught systems engineering for my 3rd time, and I have yet again learned new things about this form of systems science. Things that directly apply to some of the "evidence" I have given in this thread.
Take care,
RMT
Non-linear response time on this one.
Well, if that is all you can see in some of my posts, you might want to look deeper. I assure you that it many of my posts (esp. those relating correlations of the TOL to scientific knowledge and structures) there is a linear theme AND at least one non-linear theme that can be followed. Yet, non-obvious.
Oh I've done foolish things in my life, as I am sure we all have. And yet, even in doing foolish things, we gain information (feedback) that serve us. There is no "wasted time" or "unuseful events" in life. All events have purpose.
You really think that? Now, I am not only speaking of this thread (although I have been laying out scientific concepts in this thread, even if you with to reject them). In posts like Massive SpaceTime, and others that focus on the 3-D aspects of Time, I have certainly been teaching an expanded way of viewing physical reality. I've shown how the human body is an instantiation of the TOL network. Again, just because you wish to not accept it does not mean it is not so. There are a great many more things I could teach and reveal in this vein. For instance: Do you know that the governmental structure of the US is modeled after the TOL? Yes, several of the Founding Fathers were aware of Qabalah and practiced it in their creations. While textbooks do not teach it, I assure you that the US government was purposefully structured on the basis of balanced creations taught in Qabalistic circles. Consider the 3x3 Matrix of how the US government is structured:
3 Layers - Federal, State, Local
3 Components - Executive, Legislative, Judicial
There....that's a little more teaching for ya!
I force nothing on no one. You can refuse to believe the connections I am showing. If I were to force this belief on people, I would have to go to much greater lengths than simply posting on a net forum, now wouldn't I? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif And as far as "laughing contemptuously", I am sorry if it offends you. However, the reason I laugh is because with all the "coincidences" that I have put forth, it is quite funny that not only do you refuse to see, but you also seem to refuse to even want to look deeper into what I present to find out that what I am describing is, indeed, true. I also laugh because I am hoping that some day you WILL see, and then we can all laugh about these discussions we had "way back when". Perhaps as more and more scientific establishments begin to reveal and confirm the links between Qabalah and the structure of reality, you will begin to take some of this a bit more seriously and look deeper.
A great many things. For one, I am learning just how willing people are to cling to their limiting beliefs even in the face of more and more evidence that science and spirituality share some very deep connections. I am also learning valuable lessons in how I present such material to hard-and-fast skeptics. I am also learning more connections between science and spirituality that I have not realized before. So yes, I am learning quite a bit.
I know you're just joking around. And I think you also know I have been a teacher of aerospace engineering for well over a decade now. So, it IS one of my dayjobs!
Yes, to some extent we share this challenge. However, as by your own admission, your challenge is greater than mine, for you cannot "prove a negative". On my side of the challenge, it is merely that you do not accept what myself (and others here) have provided as "evidence". (And remember that we cannot view "evidence" in the restrictive, linear model that we have previously viewed it if we are trying to "prove" that God exists).
And perhaps this might be because you do not yet understand, or believe, the connection between energy and information that I have been discussing. Our interaction in this discussion is an expression of energy that yields information. This information is useful to more than just you and me, and this information has also been yielded as a result of similar energy interactions in other (previous and future) closed-loop time cycles. This is the way energy works through physical entities to produce information.
You have answered your own question in the same sentence! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif The greatest truths can and do have the greatest impacts on your life. And anything that can have that great an impact on one's life is not going to be easy to ARRIVE at an understanding of. It takes work!
And so it is that this is true. Yet you have simply shown that you are not willing to do the hard work to understand Sepher Yetzirah in order to be able to see that simple solution. I can give you the simple solution, and will in my next sentence; however, you will likely not accept it until you have done the hard work to see why this simple solution IS a powerful truth. Are you ready? The simple truth is the God = Life. They are the same. If you believe in Life, then you already believe in God, even if you do not wish to admit it. Another way to say it (which I have said before and you have not accepted) is God = Creation. This means that Life = Creation. This is the simplicity of our existence. Yet one will never accept it until they have walked the long, arduous, yet enlightening path of self-discovery.
I think you should read it nonetheless. I do believe there is much in this book that you will agree with... for example, the author(s) belief that "mainstream religions" are what is leading our species to ruin. Indeed, I can confidently say that I know there are things in this book that you will agree with. But parts you might not agree with are that spirituality is still what is required to overcome our problems on this planet... just not the versions of spirituality enforced by mainstream religions, as they are based on fallacies about who/what God is.
So this would mean you do not accept the premise of complexity theory? It would also imply that you do not yet accept that the universe is "complex" in that it is composed of fractally self-similar, embedded, non-linear systems. When viewed from a linear perception of life, our reality IS complex. However, once you can view reality in its natural, non-linear state, it becomes quite simple indeed. "We are all One".
And I always caveat that they are not, solely, my ideas. Most "new ideas" that people bring forth these days are really just re-stated ideas that have been around a VERY long time. And on their plausibility, I will let the universe be my evidence for how plausible these ideas are. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And you are free to think that. Yet I am quite comfortable with my level of confidence in who/what God is, and that God is a driving force in my life and the structure of our universe.
Yes, I know all about it. Interesting work, and there may be something to it. Yet it is not my path. I wish all those doing Bible Codes research luck. While I accept that there may be codes in the first five books of the OT, I am focused solely on Genesis 1. I believe this is the "core truth" around which the rest of the Bible was built. It is the Bible's foundation. And again, you may not accept it as "truth", but I can assure you that Genesis 1 is very much a scientific treatise that describes the geometric reality of our universe, and how Creation propagates this reality at dimensions above and below ours.
Then perhaps you might agree that by forcing them to be separate, unassociated disciplines (as we have done on this planet for at least the last 1800 years), we are not getting any closer to "true" answers about what our universe is like, and why we are here. If you agree that both of these disciplines are seeking the same thing, just with different methods, then perhaps you might agree that an INTEGRATION of these two disciplines might bear more fruit than either of them have borne over the last 1800 years. In fact, I see this as inevitable Disparate things that we view as "opposites" must always be eventually integrated in order to reach the next level of evolution. A good example would be how we once thought eletricity and magnetism were totally separate phenomenon. Once we finally realized they are different aspects of the same thing, and viewed them as an integrated whole, we began to unearth significant truths about them that have lead to many of the advances we enjoy today. And we are not done on this count. My father, who worked for AT&T Bell Labs during the 40s-60s, has told me over and over again "the truth about magnetism and a full understanding of its usefulness is still not yet revealed to the world. But it will be, and soon."
I'd be willing to bet that some data will be brought forth (in the not-too-distant future) that might cause you to review this belief. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Take care,
RMT
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Fallacies About God & Life
One premise that the author(s) reinforce is that God = Life. They also describe that all of our problems on this planet stem from incorrect beliefs about both God and Life. There are five of each, so let's have a look at them, eh?
5 Fallacies About God <ul type="square"> [*]The belief that God needs something from us, or needs us to act in a certain way. [*]The belief that God can fail to get what God needs. [*]The belief that God has separated us from God because we have not given God what God needs. [*]The belief that God needs what God needs so badly that God now REQUIRES us, from our separated position, to give God what God needs. [*]The belief that God will destroy us if we do not meet God's requirements. [/list]
5 Fallacies About Life <ul type="square"> [*]Human beings are separate from each other. [*]There is not enough of what human beings need to be happy. [*]To get the stuff of which there is not enough, human beings must compete with one another. [*]Some human beings are better than other human beings. [*]It is appropriate for human beings to resolve severe differences created by all the other fallacies by killing each other. [/list]
Kind of Qabalistic, when you look at it.
And that is driven home even more when you read the Nine new revelations that are intended to help excise the above 10 fallacies from our belief system:
Nine New Revelations About God/Life <ul type="square"> [*]God has never stopped communicating with human beings. [*]Every human being is as special as every other human being who has ever lived, lives now, or ever will live. We are all messengers. [*]No path to God is more direct than any other path. No religion is the "one true religion". [*]God needs nothing in order to be happy. [*]God is not a singular Super Being, living somewhere in the universe or outside of it, having the same emotional needs and subject to the same emotional turmoil as humans. [*]All things are One Thing. There is only One Thing, and all things are part of the One Thing That Is. (I AM) [*]There is no such thing as right and wrong. There is only that which works (functional) and that which does not work (non-functional). [*]You are not your body. Who you are is limitless and without end. [*]You cannot die, and you will never be condemned to eternal damnation. [/list]
I'd especially like to call your attention to the 7th list item, as it speaks about something that I have discussed in this thread long ago (functionality and functional aspects of God/Life). I introduced to trollface the triplex-orthogonal domains associated with any system that are now being taught as part of systems theory and systems engineering: Operational, Functional, and Physical. He did not seem to want to explore these concepts, perhaps because he knew there is something to them that he could not refute. Yet the authors of the book I have recommended are constantly speaking about the Functional aspects of God, Life, and Creation. They speak of how we need to revamp our spiritual beliefs such that they reflect a new, functional spirituality. In other words, a spirituality that "works" for what we say we want to achieve (Create).
This is yet another area where science and spirituality are merging. And it may come as a surprise to some, but this merging will actually help us understand the "fabric" of the Massive SpaceTime Matrix that we live within. When I teach these triplex-orthogonal domains to my students, I do so by helping them see "the truth" that each domain has a specific measure (metric) associated with it. These metrics are as follows:
Operational Domain - Time is the metric that we use to measure how the Functional and Physical aspects of a system interact to Create an event and its associated timeline. When engineers perform operational design, we do so by specifying timelines, operational phases, and serial/parallel sequences of Physical elements performing Functions.
Functional Domain - Motion is the metric that we use to measure how the Physical aspect of any system and its environment transform inputs to outputs in order to achieve the Operational goals of Creation. When engineers perform functional design, we do so by specifying the key verbs that describe a functional transformation of Input to Output.
Physical Domain - Matter is the metric that we use to measure what comprises the physical system itself, and the environment that it operates in to perform functions that achieve the Operational goals of Creation. When engineers perform physical design, we do so by defining the key physical elements of a system and identifying the key environmental aspects that the system must operate under in order to achieve its operational and functional requirements.
These are scientific truths, used every day by ordinary (and not-so-ordinary) systems engineers to Create new things, new transforms, and new orders of Time. And the triplex-orthogonal link between these truths and the ancient, mystical truths of Qabalah should not be ignored... that is, unless you have no interest in evolving your knowledge about the universe! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT
One of the things that the author(s) encourage is to spread some of the truths inherent in this book. So, I guess I will do just that.
One premise that the author(s) reinforce is that God = Life. They also describe that all of our problems on this planet stem from incorrect beliefs about both God and Life. There are five of each, so let's have a look at them, eh?
5 Fallacies About God <ul type="square"> [*]The belief that God needs something from us, or needs us to act in a certain way. [*]The belief that God can fail to get what God needs. [*]The belief that God has separated us from God because we have not given God what God needs. [*]The belief that God needs what God needs so badly that God now REQUIRES us, from our separated position, to give God what God needs. [*]The belief that God will destroy us if we do not meet God's requirements. [/list]
5 Fallacies About Life <ul type="square"> [*]Human beings are separate from each other. [*]There is not enough of what human beings need to be happy. [*]To get the stuff of which there is not enough, human beings must compete with one another. [*]Some human beings are better than other human beings. [*]It is appropriate for human beings to resolve severe differences created by all the other fallacies by killing each other. [/list]
Kind of Qabalistic, when you look at it.
Nine New Revelations About God/Life <ul type="square"> [*]God has never stopped communicating with human beings. [*]Every human being is as special as every other human being who has ever lived, lives now, or ever will live. We are all messengers. [*]No path to God is more direct than any other path. No religion is the "one true religion". [*]God needs nothing in order to be happy. [*]God is not a singular Super Being, living somewhere in the universe or outside of it, having the same emotional needs and subject to the same emotional turmoil as humans. [*]All things are One Thing. There is only One Thing, and all things are part of the One Thing That Is. (I AM) [*]There is no such thing as right and wrong. There is only that which works (functional) and that which does not work (non-functional). [*]You are not your body. Who you are is limitless and without end. [*]You cannot die, and you will never be condemned to eternal damnation. [/list]
I'd especially like to call your attention to the 7th list item, as it speaks about something that I have discussed in this thread long ago (functionality and functional aspects of God/Life). I introduced to trollface the triplex-orthogonal domains associated with any system that are now being taught as part of systems theory and systems engineering: Operational, Functional, and Physical. He did not seem to want to explore these concepts, perhaps because he knew there is something to them that he could not refute. Yet the authors of the book I have recommended are constantly speaking about the Functional aspects of God, Life, and Creation. They speak of how we need to revamp our spiritual beliefs such that they reflect a new, functional spirituality. In other words, a spirituality that "works" for what we say we want to achieve (Create).
This is yet another area where science and spirituality are merging. And it may come as a surprise to some, but this merging will actually help us understand the "fabric" of the Massive SpaceTime Matrix that we live within. When I teach these triplex-orthogonal domains to my students, I do so by helping them see "the truth" that each domain has a specific measure (metric) associated with it. These metrics are as follows:
Operational Domain - Time is the metric that we use to measure how the Functional and Physical aspects of a system interact to Create an event and its associated timeline. When engineers perform operational design, we do so by specifying timelines, operational phases, and serial/parallel sequences of Physical elements performing Functions.
Functional Domain - Motion is the metric that we use to measure how the Physical aspect of any system and its environment transform inputs to outputs in order to achieve the Operational goals of Creation. When engineers perform functional design, we do so by specifying the key verbs that describe a functional transformation of Input to Output.
Physical Domain - Matter is the metric that we use to measure what comprises the physical system itself, and the environment that it operates in to perform functions that achieve the Operational goals of Creation. When engineers perform physical design, we do so by defining the key physical elements of a system and identifying the key environmental aspects that the system must operate under in order to achieve its operational and functional requirements.
These are scientific truths, used every day by ordinary (and not-so-ordinary) systems engineers to Create new things, new transforms, and new orders of Time. And the triplex-orthogonal link between these truths and the ancient, mystical truths of Qabalah should not be ignored... that is, unless you have no interest in evolving your knowledge about the universe! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT
zerubbabel
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
I thought that some of you may glean something from the following synopsis of the Kabbalah that I compiled about 35 years ago. In its own words, it limits, somewhat, how this information is to be disseminated to others. In a very real sense, modern science (godless or otherwise) has its roots in the teachings of the Kaballah (minus the mysticism). Personally, I do not consider myself a Kabbalist and had no particular leaning toward religion when I compiled this short synopsis. I have incorporated much of its understanding into my world-belief, but I am far more interested in practical godliness than the profundities that this book teems with.
To borrow a word that I have seen Roel use before, this is just one small example of how different cultures perceive in diverse manners. I have seen him use the word "believes" in place of the word "beliefs". Other than its obvious difference (one is a verb and the other a nown), our "believes" are quite different than our "beliefs". We "talk" about our beliefs, but we act according to our "believes". Conversely, our "proof" of God is much different than our "proves". "Proof" is what determines our belief. Proves are what determines that the principles involved actually work. Providing "proof" only addressis "belief". Often, our beliefs are set in stone and are usually (philosophically speaking) "mores". An example of this is our attitude toward murder. Our belief on this rarely changes. Our "believes" and "proves", however, fall into the range of "folkways". These can change. An example of this would be abortion which was once a "more", but has since changed into a folkway although, to some, it is still definitely a strong more. I have been very reluctant to get into a debate on "proof" as it is challenging "mores" that are further complicated with cultural divergences. I would definitely like to see more "proves". Cold, hard "facts" have never, in my experience, moved a single soul.
In any case, I hope this "little" synopsis is helpful to those who are not inclined to read the entire book(s).
The Kabbalah or Religious Philosophy of the Hebrews by Adolph Franck(1809-1839)
Translation by I. Sossnitz (1973) Published by Arno Press (a NY Times Company).
Originally published in 1926 in New York by The Kabbalah Pub Co.
The Kaballah or Cabala was originally written Hebrew or Aramaic text. It is considered a Gnostic text which is "immediate knowledge of spiritual truth...to be attainable by faith alone." (Websters) It uses picturesque, metaphorical language to express abstract reasoning and thinking. A great array of Jewish and Christian disciples of the Kabbalistic system have dominated it (mystically speaking) and therefore mysticism has detracted from its sobermindedness.
There are many opinions as to its origin. Some see it as passing orally side-by-side with Mosaic teachings as a Secret Doctrine. Others see its beginnings in Egypt and Zorastrianism.
In Frank's foreword to the second French edition (1843), he gives as his reason for a new edition as: "Disgusted with positivistic, evolutionistic and brutally atheistic doctrines which dominate our countries today, and which seek to domineer not alone science but society as well, many minds have turned to the Orient, the cradle of religions and the primitive fatherland of mystic ideas...the Kaballah is not forgotten. The Theosophical Society and the Theosophic Society borrowed from Buddhism the foundation of ideas and upon the foundation-speculations and textual quotations borrowed from the Kabbalah. The Theosophic Society considers the Kabbalah as the only religion from which all other cults emanated.
In Plancks preface he states, "It should be remembered that from the beginning of the sixteenth century until the middle of the seventeenth century, it (Kabbalah) excercised a considerable influence over theology, philosophy, material science and medicine. It inspired a searching for a universal science, ONE science that would take upon itself to show us the very essence of the connection of all things in the very depth of divine nature."
He mentions a book published in 1517 ("de Verbo Morifico) which talks about the names of God. Among other things, he points to the four letters that form in Hebrew the word Jehovah. These four letters allude to the four elements (air, water, fire, earth), to the four essential qualities of bodies (the point, the line, the plane and the solid), to the four notes of the musical scale, to the four streams in the earthly paradise, to the four symbolical figures of the chariot of Ezekiel, etc.
In the Introduction (Chap 1) is the first mention of how information was passed on: The story of the Creation (Genesis) is not to be explained to two, the story of the Merkaba (Heavenly Chariot) not even to one, unless he be wise and can deduce wisdom of his own accord." Since the study of these books was advised by the Patriarchs, this instruction was: "that of an interpretation, or rather of mystery; of a science furnished with fixed forms as well as fixed principles." The first half (of Ezekiel's vision), entitled "The story of Genesis or of the Creation, taught the science of nature. The second half called "The story of the Chariot, contained a treatise on theology". He goes on to say, "in order to be initiated into this mysterious and sacred science, it was not sufficient to be distinguished by intelligence and by eminent position; one had to attain also an advanced age." This science was "dangerous to weak intelligiences because it may lead them either to insanity or to errors more fatal than impiety.
The Kabbalah is made up of primarily of 2 major works. The first and considered the oldest is Sefer Yetzirah which deals with formations and considers God as emanation. The second is the Zohar or Book of Brightness which contains the ten names consecrated by the Zohar to the first three highest Sefiroth which comprise all the others and which are : Wisdom, Intelligence and above them the Place, or the No-Thing, so called because it represents the Infinite without attribute, without form, without any qualification, a state devoid of all reality-and therefore incomprehensible to us. It is in this sense say the Kabbalists, that all that IS was drawn from no-thing. The same author gives us also a psychological theory that tells us that the dogma of pre-existence and the transmigration of the soul which is distinctly taught in the Zohar, was accepted by several Jews who confirmed their opinion by the testimony of the Scriptures."
The following is what is read in the Book of Mystery (Sifra D;'Zenuita) one of the most ancient fragments of the Zohar: "When man wishes to address a prayer to the Lord, he may invoke either the holy names of God: Eh-yeh, Jehovah, Yah, El, Elohim, Yehoud, Eloher-Zebaot, Shaddai, Adonai or the ten Sefiroth. All Kabbalists agree that the ten names of God and the ten Sefiroth are the same.
The Kabbalistic system presents the divine substance as the unique substance, the inexhaustible source from which all life, all light, and all existence flow eternally; ten general forms of the Infinite Being which divide themselves into three trinities, and then into one simple trinity and one Supreme Form. Considered as a whole, the Sefiroth represent only the first degree, the first sphere of existence that which is called the world of Emanation. Below these three are still bo be found, each apart and offering an infinite variety-the world of pure spirit, or the world of Creation; the world of spheres or of the intelligences directing them, called the world of Formation, and finally that lowest degree called the world of work or the world of Action.
It is found in the Zohar-precisely in that part which is considered the most ancient-medical knowledge. For example, the Idra Rabba, or the portion entitled "The Great Assembly", contains these lines: "In the interior of the skull, the brain is divided into three parts. It is covered with a very thin veil, and then another, tougher veil. By means of thirty-two channels, these three parts of the brain ramify into the entire body along either side (32 pairs of nerves) (the two veils are dura mater and arachinoid) There are also 32 paths corresponding to the 22 letters of the Hebrew Alphabet and the 10 numbers (0-9}. The 22 letters are divided into different classes called the "three mothers", the "seven doubles", and the "twelve simples." The numbers 3, 7, and 12 in the three regions of nature; 1 in the general composition of the world; 2 in the division of the year or in the distribution of time which the year is the principal unit; and 3 in the structure of man. We find here the idea of the macrososm and of the microcosm, or the blief that man is only the image and summary of the universe.
In the general composition of the world of the mothers, the #3 represents the elements which are: water, air and fire. Fire is the substance of the heavens; by condensation water becomes the principal substance of the earth; finally, between these two antagonistic principles is air, which separates and reconciles them by dominating them. The same sign recalls the principal seasons in the division of the year, summer which responds to fire; winter which , in the East, is generally marked by rains or snow(water) and the temperate season which is formed by the union of spring and autumn. The same trinity, finally, is seen in the formation of the human body (head, heart or breast, belly or stomach) the tripod of life. The seven doubles represent 7 planets in the universe, seven days and seven nights, seven gates in the human body (eyes, ears, nostrils, mouth) and finally the 7 happy or unhappy events which may affect man. The 12 simples point to the 12 signs of zodiac, 12 months of year, 12 principal parts of the human body and to the 12 important attibutes of our nature (sight, hearing, smell, speech, nutrition, generation, action or touch, locomotion, anger, laughter, thought and sleep) "Unity prevails over the three, the three over the seven, the seven over the twelve)"
"Before God manifested himself, when all things were still hidden Him, He was the least known among all the unknown. In that state, He had no name other than the name that expresses interrogation. He began by forming an imperceptible point; that was His own thought. He then began to construct with this thought a mysterious and Holy Form; finally He covered it with a rich and radiant garment.-we mean the universe whose name necessarily enters into the names of God" (Zohar, par I,vol 1 and 2) By joining the two Hebrew words (Me-Who) and (ayleh-these) we get Elohim
What is the Kindgom? It is the permanent and immanent action of all 10 attributes of divinity, the actual presence of God in the creation. This idea is fully expressed by the word "Shekinah".
The indivisible point (the absolute) that had no limits and could not be conceived because of its intensity and purity, spread outward and formed a tent which served as a cover to this indivisible point. This tent, although of a light less pure than the indivisible point, was still too brilliant to be looked at; it spread in its turn ourward and this expansion was its garment. Thus, everything comes into existence by an ever-descending motion; thus, finally, it was that the universe took shape.
I thought that some of you may glean something from the following synopsis of the Kabbalah that I compiled about 35 years ago. In its own words, it limits, somewhat, how this information is to be disseminated to others. In a very real sense, modern science (godless or otherwise) has its roots in the teachings of the Kaballah (minus the mysticism). Personally, I do not consider myself a Kabbalist and had no particular leaning toward religion when I compiled this short synopsis. I have incorporated much of its understanding into my world-belief, but I am far more interested in practical godliness than the profundities that this book teems with.
To borrow a word that I have seen Roel use before, this is just one small example of how different cultures perceive in diverse manners. I have seen him use the word "believes" in place of the word "beliefs". Other than its obvious difference (one is a verb and the other a nown), our "believes" are quite different than our "beliefs". We "talk" about our beliefs, but we act according to our "believes". Conversely, our "proof" of God is much different than our "proves". "Proof" is what determines our belief. Proves are what determines that the principles involved actually work. Providing "proof" only addressis "belief". Often, our beliefs are set in stone and are usually (philosophically speaking) "mores". An example of this is our attitude toward murder. Our belief on this rarely changes. Our "believes" and "proves", however, fall into the range of "folkways". These can change. An example of this would be abortion which was once a "more", but has since changed into a folkway although, to some, it is still definitely a strong more. I have been very reluctant to get into a debate on "proof" as it is challenging "mores" that are further complicated with cultural divergences. I would definitely like to see more "proves". Cold, hard "facts" have never, in my experience, moved a single soul.
In any case, I hope this "little" synopsis is helpful to those who are not inclined to read the entire book(s).
The Kabbalah or Religious Philosophy of the Hebrews by Adolph Franck(1809-1839)
Translation by I. Sossnitz (1973) Published by Arno Press (a NY Times Company).
Originally published in 1926 in New York by The Kabbalah Pub Co.
The Kaballah or Cabala was originally written Hebrew or Aramaic text. It is considered a Gnostic text which is "immediate knowledge of spiritual truth...to be attainable by faith alone." (Websters) It uses picturesque, metaphorical language to express abstract reasoning and thinking. A great array of Jewish and Christian disciples of the Kabbalistic system have dominated it (mystically speaking) and therefore mysticism has detracted from its sobermindedness.
There are many opinions as to its origin. Some see it as passing orally side-by-side with Mosaic teachings as a Secret Doctrine. Others see its beginnings in Egypt and Zorastrianism.
In Frank's foreword to the second French edition (1843), he gives as his reason for a new edition as: "Disgusted with positivistic, evolutionistic and brutally atheistic doctrines which dominate our countries today, and which seek to domineer not alone science but society as well, many minds have turned to the Orient, the cradle of religions and the primitive fatherland of mystic ideas...the Kaballah is not forgotten. The Theosophical Society and the Theosophic Society borrowed from Buddhism the foundation of ideas and upon the foundation-speculations and textual quotations borrowed from the Kabbalah. The Theosophic Society considers the Kabbalah as the only religion from which all other cults emanated.
In Plancks preface he states, "It should be remembered that from the beginning of the sixteenth century until the middle of the seventeenth century, it (Kabbalah) excercised a considerable influence over theology, philosophy, material science and medicine. It inspired a searching for a universal science, ONE science that would take upon itself to show us the very essence of the connection of all things in the very depth of divine nature."
He mentions a book published in 1517 ("de Verbo Morifico) which talks about the names of God. Among other things, he points to the four letters that form in Hebrew the word Jehovah. These four letters allude to the four elements (air, water, fire, earth), to the four essential qualities of bodies (the point, the line, the plane and the solid), to the four notes of the musical scale, to the four streams in the earthly paradise, to the four symbolical figures of the chariot of Ezekiel, etc.
In the Introduction (Chap 1) is the first mention of how information was passed on: The story of the Creation (Genesis) is not to be explained to two, the story of the Merkaba (Heavenly Chariot) not even to one, unless he be wise and can deduce wisdom of his own accord." Since the study of these books was advised by the Patriarchs, this instruction was: "that of an interpretation, or rather of mystery; of a science furnished with fixed forms as well as fixed principles." The first half (of Ezekiel's vision), entitled "The story of Genesis or of the Creation, taught the science of nature. The second half called "The story of the Chariot, contained a treatise on theology". He goes on to say, "in order to be initiated into this mysterious and sacred science, it was not sufficient to be distinguished by intelligence and by eminent position; one had to attain also an advanced age." This science was "dangerous to weak intelligiences because it may lead them either to insanity or to errors more fatal than impiety.
The Kabbalah is made up of primarily of 2 major works. The first and considered the oldest is Sefer Yetzirah which deals with formations and considers God as emanation. The second is the Zohar or Book of Brightness which contains the ten names consecrated by the Zohar to the first three highest Sefiroth which comprise all the others and which are : Wisdom, Intelligence and above them the Place, or the No-Thing, so called because it represents the Infinite without attribute, without form, without any qualification, a state devoid of all reality-and therefore incomprehensible to us. It is in this sense say the Kabbalists, that all that IS was drawn from no-thing. The same author gives us also a psychological theory that tells us that the dogma of pre-existence and the transmigration of the soul which is distinctly taught in the Zohar, was accepted by several Jews who confirmed their opinion by the testimony of the Scriptures."
The following is what is read in the Book of Mystery (Sifra D;'Zenuita) one of the most ancient fragments of the Zohar: "When man wishes to address a prayer to the Lord, he may invoke either the holy names of God: Eh-yeh, Jehovah, Yah, El, Elohim, Yehoud, Eloher-Zebaot, Shaddai, Adonai or the ten Sefiroth. All Kabbalists agree that the ten names of God and the ten Sefiroth are the same.
The Kabbalistic system presents the divine substance as the unique substance, the inexhaustible source from which all life, all light, and all existence flow eternally; ten general forms of the Infinite Being which divide themselves into three trinities, and then into one simple trinity and one Supreme Form. Considered as a whole, the Sefiroth represent only the first degree, the first sphere of existence that which is called the world of Emanation. Below these three are still bo be found, each apart and offering an infinite variety-the world of pure spirit, or the world of Creation; the world of spheres or of the intelligences directing them, called the world of Formation, and finally that lowest degree called the world of work or the world of Action.
It is found in the Zohar-precisely in that part which is considered the most ancient-medical knowledge. For example, the Idra Rabba, or the portion entitled "The Great Assembly", contains these lines: "In the interior of the skull, the brain is divided into three parts. It is covered with a very thin veil, and then another, tougher veil. By means of thirty-two channels, these three parts of the brain ramify into the entire body along either side (32 pairs of nerves) (the two veils are dura mater and arachinoid) There are also 32 paths corresponding to the 22 letters of the Hebrew Alphabet and the 10 numbers (0-9}. The 22 letters are divided into different classes called the "three mothers", the "seven doubles", and the "twelve simples." The numbers 3, 7, and 12 in the three regions of nature; 1 in the general composition of the world; 2 in the division of the year or in the distribution of time which the year is the principal unit; and 3 in the structure of man. We find here the idea of the macrososm and of the microcosm, or the blief that man is only the image and summary of the universe.
In the general composition of the world of the mothers, the #3 represents the elements which are: water, air and fire. Fire is the substance of the heavens; by condensation water becomes the principal substance of the earth; finally, between these two antagonistic principles is air, which separates and reconciles them by dominating them. The same sign recalls the principal seasons in the division of the year, summer which responds to fire; winter which , in the East, is generally marked by rains or snow(water) and the temperate season which is formed by the union of spring and autumn. The same trinity, finally, is seen in the formation of the human body (head, heart or breast, belly or stomach) the tripod of life. The seven doubles represent 7 planets in the universe, seven days and seven nights, seven gates in the human body (eyes, ears, nostrils, mouth) and finally the 7 happy or unhappy events which may affect man. The 12 simples point to the 12 signs of zodiac, 12 months of year, 12 principal parts of the human body and to the 12 important attibutes of our nature (sight, hearing, smell, speech, nutrition, generation, action or touch, locomotion, anger, laughter, thought and sleep) "Unity prevails over the three, the three over the seven, the seven over the twelve)"
"Before God manifested himself, when all things were still hidden Him, He was the least known among all the unknown. In that state, He had no name other than the name that expresses interrogation. He began by forming an imperceptible point; that was His own thought. He then began to construct with this thought a mysterious and Holy Form; finally He covered it with a rich and radiant garment.-we mean the universe whose name necessarily enters into the names of God" (Zohar, par I,vol 1 and 2) By joining the two Hebrew words (Me-Who) and (ayleh-these) we get Elohim
What is the Kindgom? It is the permanent and immanent action of all 10 attributes of divinity, the actual presence of God in the creation. This idea is fully expressed by the word "Shekinah".
The indivisible point (the absolute) that had no limits and could not be conceived because of its intensity and purity, spread outward and formed a tent which served as a cover to this indivisible point. This tent, although of a light less pure than the indivisible point, was still too brilliant to be looked at; it spread in its turn ourward and this expansion was its garment. Thus, everything comes into existence by an ever-descending motion; thus, finally, it was that the universe took shape.
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
Greetings Zerub!
Nice post. There are a lot of xlnt thoughts that I agree with...but for just a few...
Ever since being introduced to Qabalah back in '82, I have chosen to pursue the scientific implications of this knowledge, and separate it from the mystical domination of its ideas.
Best of the New Year to you, Zerub.
RMT
Greetings Zerub!
Nice post. There are a lot of xlnt thoughts that I agree with...but for just a few...
Agreed.
Well put. Some describe this phenomenon as: Beliefs (nouns) result in Behavior (actions, verbs). A powerful understanding of how what you think directly affects your ability to create.
Amen & Alleluia!
Best of the New Year to you, Zerub.
RMT
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
God dammit, why can't we get this kind of traffic in the paranormal section.
They talk about spirits, ghosts, and monsters, things we can see daily, and theres like no one talking there. But you mention one three letter word and theres 45 pages on it
God dammit, why can't we get this kind of traffic in the paranormal section.
They talk about spirits, ghosts, and monsters, things we can see daily, and theres like no one talking there. But you mention one three letter word and theres 45 pages on it
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
Don't worry... I know you aren't going to hell for that. Cuz the only hell that exists is the one that we create for ourselves.
Deism is funism. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif Oh you sly dog of double entendre, Keven!
Don't worry... I know you aren't going to hell for that. Cuz the only hell that exists is the one that we create for ourselves.
Deism is funism. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT
- Thread starter
- #889
KerrTexas
Timekeeper
Prophecy
Many ask questions with regards to the future. The following was something I came across several weeks ago...
"""Message given by Dr. Samuel Doctorian 16th August 1998 on the Isle of Patmos
"I was here alone in a house on the Isle of Patmos for several weeks to pray and seek the Lord. I found a little chapel - St. Nicolas's Chapel - where no one ever goes. I went there and poured out my heart before God. I found a rock on the side of a hill where I would go to sit and pray - meditation and reading the Bible. I ate very little during those days. Several times I went to the cave of John where he saw the great Revelation.
While meditating for one month in this solitary place, I thought, "I wonder if the Lord will ever send a tenth angel?" I'd seen angels nine times before - in England, in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, in Amman, Jordan, in Jerusalem, and angel that delivered a woman from being hanged in upper Egypt; I saw the ninth angel in Beirut in the midst of war. The angel physically awakened me at 3:00 in the morning and told me to get out of the country immediately. I am grateful to the Lord until today - I don't know what might have happened to me if the angel had not come. Heaven will tell that one-day. So I wondered whether I would see an angel for the tenth time. There were times when I was praying when I felt such presence I asked, "Lord, I wonder if an angel is coming now? " But it was not so. One night I even dreamt about an angel. He told me to fly in my dream and I did - but that was only a dream. I wanted to see a real angel, as I had seen nine times before.
On June 20 at 3:50am, here in Patmos suddenly my room was full of light, and there are no lights around here. It is a house all by itself at the end of the road near a monastery. Lo and behold, when I was wide-awake - I saw five beautiful angels. I saw their faces -perfect and human-like, but full of light. I saw their eyes, their hair, their hands.
On my right side were two angels, and when I looked to the left I saw three other angels with wings. They had beautiful white robes falling to the floor - something I can't describe with human words. I wondered why five angels had come, but I was trembling and shaking. I wanted to cry, but I could not. Just before I saw these angels in the Spirit. I had seen myself in a great meeting of multitudes, and I was preaching in English. An interpreter was on my left with dark hair and a grey suit, but I can't remember what language he was speaking. I was prophesying this message: "My church, you preach love, you teach love, but you need to practice love - to show love. There is need of unity in my body. There are many divisions among you. My spirit will not move and work where there is no unity. There is carnality in my church; too much uncleanness in my church. I desire and I want a holy people. I died to made you holy." While I was prophesying in the spirit I was trembling. My eyes opened and I was looking at the great multitude. And suddenly, in the midst of the prophecy, these mighty angels appeared. I went back from the pulpit and thought I was going to fall down. I am now wide-awake, but this is all happening in the spirit. Some power helped me not to fall down and I wondered what was happening.
Then suddenly the first angel on my right side said," We are five angels from the five continents. We are here to give you messages from the five continents of the world." The moment I heard that, I also heard the multitude crying out, "Ohhh, Ohhh, Ohhh;" I believe that multitude saw the angels also. Somehow the Lord showed me that in the days to come, in many parts of the world, God is going to reveal Himself through ministering angels. It's going to happen publicly; it's going to happen in churches - thousands of people seeing angels at the same time. They will be ministering to the Body in these last days. Then came this message from the angels:" What you see and hear, tell it to the nations." So it's not something to keep to myself. Whether they accept it or don't accept it, I have to tell it to the nations.
FIRST ANGEL:
The first angel said:" I have a message for all of Asia." When he said that, in a spilt few seconds, I could see all of China, India, the Asian countries like Vietnam, Laos - I've never been to those countries. I saw the Philippines, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. And then the angel showed me all of Papua New Guinea, Irian Jaya and down to Australia and New Zealand.
"I am the angel of Asia," he said. And in his hand I saw a tremendous trumpet that he is going to blow all over Asia. Whatever the angel said, it's going to happen with the trumpet of the Lord all over Asia. Millions are going to hear the mighty voice of the Lord. Then the angel said, "There shall be disaster, starvation - many will die from hunger. Strong winds will be looked like has never happened before. A great part shall be shaken and destroyed. Earthquakes will take place all over Asia and the sea will cover the earth.
I saw this on June 20. Today is August 16. A few weeks ago I heard the news of villages completely wiped out and washed into the sea in Papua New Guinea. Thousand of lives in great jeopardy. That happened a few weeks ago, and the angel told me it is going to happen all over Asia. "The earth will fall into the sea," I heard the angel say," part of Australia will be shaken. Australia will be divided, and a great part will go under the ocean. "This was frightening - I wondered whether I was hearing right. But the angel said," Millions will die in China and in India. Nation will be against nation, brother against brother. Asians will fight each other. Nuclear weapons shall be used, killing millions." Twice I heard the words, " Catastrophic! Catastrophic!" then the angel said, "Financial crisis will come to Asia. I will shake the world."
I was trembling while the angel was speaking. Then he looked at me and smiled and said," There shall be the greatest spiritual awakening - bondage will be broken. Barriers will be removed. And all over Asia - China - India - people will turn to Christ. In Australia there shall be tremendous revival." I heard the angel of Asia say, " It is the last harvest." Then as if the Lord were speaking, he said," I shall prepare My church for the return of Christ." I was happy with such good news after the message of judgment. All the time the five angels were in my room I could feel their presence - it was tremendous.
SECOND ANGEL:
Then I saw that the second angel had a sickle in his hand, such as is used in harvesting. The second angel said," Harvest time has come in Israel and the countries all the way to Iran." I saw those countries in a few split seconds. "All of Turkey and those [inaudible;] countries that have refused me and refused my message of love shall hate each other and kill one another." I saw the angel raise the sickle and come down on all the Middle East countries.
I saw Iran, Persia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, all of Georgia - Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, all of Asia Minor - full of blood. I saw blood all over these countries. And I saw fire; Nuclear weapons used in many of those countries. Smoke rising from everywhere. Sudden destruction - men destroying one another.
I heard these words, " Israel, Oh Israel, the great judgment has come." The angel said, "The chosen, the church, the remnant, shall be purified. The Spirit of God shall prepare the children of God." I saw fires rising to heaven. The angel said," This is the final judgment. My church shall be purified, protected and ready for the final day. Men will die from thirst. Water shall be scarce all over the Middle East. Rivers shall dry up, and men will fight for water in those countries." The angel showed me that the United Nations shall be broken in pieces because of the crisis in the Middle East. There shall be no more United Nations. The angel with the sickle shall reap the harvest.
THIRD ANGEL:
Then one of the angels with wings showed me Europe from one end to the other - from the north all the way down to Spain and Portugal. In his hand he had a scale of measurement. I saw him fly over Europe, and I heard the words, " I am grieved. I am grieved. Unrighteousness, uncleanness, ungodliness - all over Europe. The sin has risen to heaven. The Holy Spirit is grieved." I saw the rivers of Europe flooding and covering millions of houses. Millions drown. After seeing this, I read the news a few weeks ago. Czechoslovakia had the worst flooding ever. I also heard that the big river in China is in tremendous danger of thousands of houses being destroyed in flooding. I didn't know all this news until after I had seen the vision and heard what the angels told me.
Suddenly I heard earthquakes all over Europe. " Countries that have had no earthquakes shall be shaken," said the angel. And suddenly, in my spirit, I saw the Eiffel Tower in Paris crumbling falling down. A great part of Germany destroyed. The great city of London - destruction everywhere. I saw floods all over Scandinavia. I looked to the south and saw Spain and Portugal passing through hunger and great destruction.
Many will die from hunger all over Spain and Portugal. I was disturbed by all this news, and I said," Lord, what about your children?" The angel said," I shall prepare them. They shall be looking for the appearing of the Lord. Many will cry to me in those days and I will save them. I shall perform mighty miracles for them and show them My power." So in the midst of great destruction, there will be the grace of God in those countries. I was happy that God has His protection over His children.
FOURTH ANGEL:
Now we go to Africa. I saw the fourth angel with wings fly over Africa, and I could see from Capetown in the south all the way to the north of Cairo - I saw all the countries there, more than fifty of them. The angel of Africa had a sword in his hand - a tremendous, sharp sword. Suddenly I heard him say, " Innocent blood has been shed. Divisions amongst the people generations far from the Lord - they have killed one another, thousands of people. I have seen my faithful children in Africa, and I shall reward all the faithful in the continent of Africa. I shall bless them abundantly. I shall control the weather - scorching and burning of the sun in some parts. Great rivers shall dry up, and millions will die from starvation. In other parts, flooding. Foundations shall be shaken. My sword shall judge the unrighteous and the bloodthirsty. So many earthquakes shall happen that rivers shall flow different directions in the continent, flooding many villages." I saw great pieces falling from the sky over different parts of Africa " There shall be trembling of the earth like has not been seen since the creation. None shall escape the sword of the Lord." I saw the River Nile drying up. It is the god of Egypt. Fishes dead and stinking all over Egypt. A great part of the middle of Africa will be covered with water - millions dying. "Lord," I said, "It is all bad news. All destruction. Any good news?" The Lord said, "The final day has come. Judgment day is here. My love has been refused now, and the end has come." I was shaking and trembling. I thought I cannot bear it.
FIFTH ANGEL:
Then I saw the last angel flying over North and South America - all the way from the North Pole down to Argentina. >From the east of the U.S.A. to California. I saw in his hand a bowl. The angel said he would pour out over these countries the judgments that were in the bowl. Then I heard the angel say, "No justice anymore. No righteousness. No holiness. Idolatry. Materialism. Drunkenness. Bondage of sin. Shedding of innocent blood - millions of babies being killed before they are born. Families are broken. An adulterous generation. Sodom and Gomorrah is here. The days of Noah are here. False preachers. False prophets. Refusing of my love. Many of them have the imitation of religion, but denying the real power.
When I heard all that, I begged the angel, "Can you not wait for a little while? Don't pour it. Give a chance for repentance." The angel said, "Many times God has spared and has spoken, but they have not listened. His patience has come to an end. Beware, the time has come. They have loved money and pleasure more than they have loved Me." As the angel began to pour from the bowl in his hand, I saw tremendous icebergs melting. When that happened I saw floods all over Canada and North America - all the rivers flood; destruction everywhere. I heard the world market collapsing with mighty earthquakes, and New York skyscrapers were tumbling - millions dying.
I saw ships in the ocean sinking. I heard explosions all over the north country. I saw the angel pouring over Mexico and two oceans joining together- the Atlantic and the Pacific. A great part of north Brazil covered with water, the Amazon River turning into a great sea. Forests destroyed and flooded. Major cities in Brazil destroyed; earthquakes in many places. As the angel poured, great destruction took place in Chile and Argentina as never before. The whole world was shaking. Then I heard the angel say," This will happen in a very short time." I said, "Can't you postpone? Don't pour these things out all over the globe." And suddenly I saw the five angels standing around the globe lifting up their hands and their wings towards heaven and saying, "All glory to the Lord of heaven and earth. Now the time has come and He will glorify His Son. The earth shall be burned and destroyed. All things shall pass away. The new Heaven and New Earth shall come. God shall destroy the works of the devil forever. I shall show My power - how I will protect My children in the midst of all this destruction.
Be ready for that day, for the Lord has come.
My room was full of light from the brightness of the angels. Then suddenly they ascended up to heaven. As I looked up I saw the angels go in five directions. I know they already have started their duties. For more than an hour I could not move. I was wide-awake, trembling from time to time. I said, " Lord, shall I leave Patmos now?" He said, "No, I brought you here for a purpose." I said," The message from the angels all over the world is not good news. It is judgment, punishment, destruction, devastation. What will people say about me? I've always been a preacher of love, peace and good news." The angel said," It is our message. You are the instrument, the channel. What a privilege that God has chosen you to give this message to the nations. "I said," Lord, Thy will be done." To God be the glory.
Scripture Reference: 1 Thess 4:13-18; 5:1-11; Hebrews 12:22-29; 2 Peter 3:1-13"""
Many ask questions with regards to the future. The following was something I came across several weeks ago...
"""Message given by Dr. Samuel Doctorian 16th August 1998 on the Isle of Patmos
"I was here alone in a house on the Isle of Patmos for several weeks to pray and seek the Lord. I found a little chapel - St. Nicolas's Chapel - where no one ever goes. I went there and poured out my heart before God. I found a rock on the side of a hill where I would go to sit and pray - meditation and reading the Bible. I ate very little during those days. Several times I went to the cave of John where he saw the great Revelation.
While meditating for one month in this solitary place, I thought, "I wonder if the Lord will ever send a tenth angel?" I'd seen angels nine times before - in England, in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, in Amman, Jordan, in Jerusalem, and angel that delivered a woman from being hanged in upper Egypt; I saw the ninth angel in Beirut in the midst of war. The angel physically awakened me at 3:00 in the morning and told me to get out of the country immediately. I am grateful to the Lord until today - I don't know what might have happened to me if the angel had not come. Heaven will tell that one-day. So I wondered whether I would see an angel for the tenth time. There were times when I was praying when I felt such presence I asked, "Lord, I wonder if an angel is coming now? " But it was not so. One night I even dreamt about an angel. He told me to fly in my dream and I did - but that was only a dream. I wanted to see a real angel, as I had seen nine times before.
On June 20 at 3:50am, here in Patmos suddenly my room was full of light, and there are no lights around here. It is a house all by itself at the end of the road near a monastery. Lo and behold, when I was wide-awake - I saw five beautiful angels. I saw their faces -perfect and human-like, but full of light. I saw their eyes, their hair, their hands.
On my right side were two angels, and when I looked to the left I saw three other angels with wings. They had beautiful white robes falling to the floor - something I can't describe with human words. I wondered why five angels had come, but I was trembling and shaking. I wanted to cry, but I could not. Just before I saw these angels in the Spirit. I had seen myself in a great meeting of multitudes, and I was preaching in English. An interpreter was on my left with dark hair and a grey suit, but I can't remember what language he was speaking. I was prophesying this message: "My church, you preach love, you teach love, but you need to practice love - to show love. There is need of unity in my body. There are many divisions among you. My spirit will not move and work where there is no unity. There is carnality in my church; too much uncleanness in my church. I desire and I want a holy people. I died to made you holy." While I was prophesying in the spirit I was trembling. My eyes opened and I was looking at the great multitude. And suddenly, in the midst of the prophecy, these mighty angels appeared. I went back from the pulpit and thought I was going to fall down. I am now wide-awake, but this is all happening in the spirit. Some power helped me not to fall down and I wondered what was happening.
Then suddenly the first angel on my right side said," We are five angels from the five continents. We are here to give you messages from the five continents of the world." The moment I heard that, I also heard the multitude crying out, "Ohhh, Ohhh, Ohhh;" I believe that multitude saw the angels also. Somehow the Lord showed me that in the days to come, in many parts of the world, God is going to reveal Himself through ministering angels. It's going to happen publicly; it's going to happen in churches - thousands of people seeing angels at the same time. They will be ministering to the Body in these last days. Then came this message from the angels:" What you see and hear, tell it to the nations." So it's not something to keep to myself. Whether they accept it or don't accept it, I have to tell it to the nations.
FIRST ANGEL:
The first angel said:" I have a message for all of Asia." When he said that, in a spilt few seconds, I could see all of China, India, the Asian countries like Vietnam, Laos - I've never been to those countries. I saw the Philippines, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. And then the angel showed me all of Papua New Guinea, Irian Jaya and down to Australia and New Zealand.
"I am the angel of Asia," he said. And in his hand I saw a tremendous trumpet that he is going to blow all over Asia. Whatever the angel said, it's going to happen with the trumpet of the Lord all over Asia. Millions are going to hear the mighty voice of the Lord. Then the angel said, "There shall be disaster, starvation - many will die from hunger. Strong winds will be looked like has never happened before. A great part shall be shaken and destroyed. Earthquakes will take place all over Asia and the sea will cover the earth.
I saw this on June 20. Today is August 16. A few weeks ago I heard the news of villages completely wiped out and washed into the sea in Papua New Guinea. Thousand of lives in great jeopardy. That happened a few weeks ago, and the angel told me it is going to happen all over Asia. "The earth will fall into the sea," I heard the angel say," part of Australia will be shaken. Australia will be divided, and a great part will go under the ocean. "This was frightening - I wondered whether I was hearing right. But the angel said," Millions will die in China and in India. Nation will be against nation, brother against brother. Asians will fight each other. Nuclear weapons shall be used, killing millions." Twice I heard the words, " Catastrophic! Catastrophic!" then the angel said, "Financial crisis will come to Asia. I will shake the world."
I was trembling while the angel was speaking. Then he looked at me and smiled and said," There shall be the greatest spiritual awakening - bondage will be broken. Barriers will be removed. And all over Asia - China - India - people will turn to Christ. In Australia there shall be tremendous revival." I heard the angel of Asia say, " It is the last harvest." Then as if the Lord were speaking, he said," I shall prepare My church for the return of Christ." I was happy with such good news after the message of judgment. All the time the five angels were in my room I could feel their presence - it was tremendous.
SECOND ANGEL:
Then I saw that the second angel had a sickle in his hand, such as is used in harvesting. The second angel said," Harvest time has come in Israel and the countries all the way to Iran." I saw those countries in a few split seconds. "All of Turkey and those [inaudible;] countries that have refused me and refused my message of love shall hate each other and kill one another." I saw the angel raise the sickle and come down on all the Middle East countries.
I saw Iran, Persia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, all of Georgia - Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, all of Asia Minor - full of blood. I saw blood all over these countries. And I saw fire; Nuclear weapons used in many of those countries. Smoke rising from everywhere. Sudden destruction - men destroying one another.
I heard these words, " Israel, Oh Israel, the great judgment has come." The angel said, "The chosen, the church, the remnant, shall be purified. The Spirit of God shall prepare the children of God." I saw fires rising to heaven. The angel said," This is the final judgment. My church shall be purified, protected and ready for the final day. Men will die from thirst. Water shall be scarce all over the Middle East. Rivers shall dry up, and men will fight for water in those countries." The angel showed me that the United Nations shall be broken in pieces because of the crisis in the Middle East. There shall be no more United Nations. The angel with the sickle shall reap the harvest.
THIRD ANGEL:
Then one of the angels with wings showed me Europe from one end to the other - from the north all the way down to Spain and Portugal. In his hand he had a scale of measurement. I saw him fly over Europe, and I heard the words, " I am grieved. I am grieved. Unrighteousness, uncleanness, ungodliness - all over Europe. The sin has risen to heaven. The Holy Spirit is grieved." I saw the rivers of Europe flooding and covering millions of houses. Millions drown. After seeing this, I read the news a few weeks ago. Czechoslovakia had the worst flooding ever. I also heard that the big river in China is in tremendous danger of thousands of houses being destroyed in flooding. I didn't know all this news until after I had seen the vision and heard what the angels told me.
Suddenly I heard earthquakes all over Europe. " Countries that have had no earthquakes shall be shaken," said the angel. And suddenly, in my spirit, I saw the Eiffel Tower in Paris crumbling falling down. A great part of Germany destroyed. The great city of London - destruction everywhere. I saw floods all over Scandinavia. I looked to the south and saw Spain and Portugal passing through hunger and great destruction.
Many will die from hunger all over Spain and Portugal. I was disturbed by all this news, and I said," Lord, what about your children?" The angel said," I shall prepare them. They shall be looking for the appearing of the Lord. Many will cry to me in those days and I will save them. I shall perform mighty miracles for them and show them My power." So in the midst of great destruction, there will be the grace of God in those countries. I was happy that God has His protection over His children.
FOURTH ANGEL:
Now we go to Africa. I saw the fourth angel with wings fly over Africa, and I could see from Capetown in the south all the way to the north of Cairo - I saw all the countries there, more than fifty of them. The angel of Africa had a sword in his hand - a tremendous, sharp sword. Suddenly I heard him say, " Innocent blood has been shed. Divisions amongst the people generations far from the Lord - they have killed one another, thousands of people. I have seen my faithful children in Africa, and I shall reward all the faithful in the continent of Africa. I shall bless them abundantly. I shall control the weather - scorching and burning of the sun in some parts. Great rivers shall dry up, and millions will die from starvation. In other parts, flooding. Foundations shall be shaken. My sword shall judge the unrighteous and the bloodthirsty. So many earthquakes shall happen that rivers shall flow different directions in the continent, flooding many villages." I saw great pieces falling from the sky over different parts of Africa " There shall be trembling of the earth like has not been seen since the creation. None shall escape the sword of the Lord." I saw the River Nile drying up. It is the god of Egypt. Fishes dead and stinking all over Egypt. A great part of the middle of Africa will be covered with water - millions dying. "Lord," I said, "It is all bad news. All destruction. Any good news?" The Lord said, "The final day has come. Judgment day is here. My love has been refused now, and the end has come." I was shaking and trembling. I thought I cannot bear it.
FIFTH ANGEL:
Then I saw the last angel flying over North and South America - all the way from the North Pole down to Argentina. >From the east of the U.S.A. to California. I saw in his hand a bowl. The angel said he would pour out over these countries the judgments that were in the bowl. Then I heard the angel say, "No justice anymore. No righteousness. No holiness. Idolatry. Materialism. Drunkenness. Bondage of sin. Shedding of innocent blood - millions of babies being killed before they are born. Families are broken. An adulterous generation. Sodom and Gomorrah is here. The days of Noah are here. False preachers. False prophets. Refusing of my love. Many of them have the imitation of religion, but denying the real power.
When I heard all that, I begged the angel, "Can you not wait for a little while? Don't pour it. Give a chance for repentance." The angel said, "Many times God has spared and has spoken, but they have not listened. His patience has come to an end. Beware, the time has come. They have loved money and pleasure more than they have loved Me." As the angel began to pour from the bowl in his hand, I saw tremendous icebergs melting. When that happened I saw floods all over Canada and North America - all the rivers flood; destruction everywhere. I heard the world market collapsing with mighty earthquakes, and New York skyscrapers were tumbling - millions dying.
I saw ships in the ocean sinking. I heard explosions all over the north country. I saw the angel pouring over Mexico and two oceans joining together- the Atlantic and the Pacific. A great part of north Brazil covered with water, the Amazon River turning into a great sea. Forests destroyed and flooded. Major cities in Brazil destroyed; earthquakes in many places. As the angel poured, great destruction took place in Chile and Argentina as never before. The whole world was shaking. Then I heard the angel say," This will happen in a very short time." I said, "Can't you postpone? Don't pour these things out all over the globe." And suddenly I saw the five angels standing around the globe lifting up their hands and their wings towards heaven and saying, "All glory to the Lord of heaven and earth. Now the time has come and He will glorify His Son. The earth shall be burned and destroyed. All things shall pass away. The new Heaven and New Earth shall come. God shall destroy the works of the devil forever. I shall show My power - how I will protect My children in the midst of all this destruction.
Be ready for that day, for the Lord has come.
My room was full of light from the brightness of the angels. Then suddenly they ascended up to heaven. As I looked up I saw the angels go in five directions. I know they already have started their duties. For more than an hour I could not move. I was wide-awake, trembling from time to time. I said, " Lord, shall I leave Patmos now?" He said, "No, I brought you here for a purpose." I said," The message from the angels all over the world is not good news. It is judgment, punishment, destruction, devastation. What will people say about me? I've always been a preacher of love, peace and good news." The angel said," It is our message. You are the instrument, the channel. What a privilege that God has chosen you to give this message to the nations. "I said," Lord, Thy will be done." To God be the glory.
Scripture Reference: 1 Thess 4:13-18; 5:1-11; Hebrews 12:22-29; 2 Peter 3:1-13"""
- Thread starter
- #890
KerrTexas
Timekeeper
Re: Prophecy
Does anyone else feel the weather patterns seem to be setting up for the above prophecy to actually take place?
The Bible kind of throws an interesting dilema into the concept of time travel. "IF" Revelations turns out to be true and does occur within this generation, Time Travel as we understand it to be, would be finished.
The only alternative I see would be if we would be allowed to revisit our past for whatever reasons at the Will of God.
Does anyone else feel the weather patterns seem to be setting up for the above prophecy to actually take place?
The Bible kind of throws an interesting dilema into the concept of time travel. "IF" Revelations turns out to be true and does occur within this generation, Time Travel as we understand it to be, would be finished.
The only alternative I see would be if we would be allowed to revisit our past for whatever reasons at the Will of God.
Roel van Houten
Timekeeper
Re: Scientifically sound Bible...
Perhaps you're in need of a faster processor
Yes, but not all events are worthwhile.
And again, just because you accept it as the truth, doesn't mean it is.
Many things are structured in a 3x3 matrix, or 4x4, or 5x5 or 10x10 or 11x18 and so on... That's not necessarily because it has anything to do with Quabalah. Your brain is looking for patterns again; it's a talent we sometimes use too often.
But you are no different. You refuse to accept the possibility that you might be wrong.
You're merely picking out the arguments that confirm your own believes. Just because I don't accept your version of the truth, doesn't mean I'm limiting myself to anything.
Of course. And I'm pretty sure that you're a very good teacher of aerospace engineering... However, teaching other subjects might proof to be a tad more difficult. What you're doing in this thread looks more like preaching, rather than teaching. And since I assume you actually do want to teach me something, I hope you use this feedback to become a better teacher. Besides, you need someone to keep you in balance and on this board that someone might just happen to be me /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And still I say that we were not meant to have this discussion. The fact that we're having this conversation is totally based on coincedence. And again, that's the fundemental difference between my thinking and yours. You should think about the possibility that there are some things that do not serve a specific purpose.
You totally missed the essence of what I was trying to get across. If indeed the solution turns out to be simple, you'd be able to give me the simple solution. Since you don't seem to have a simple solution, I think you haven't really found the truth either.
In my opinion that's not a simple solution, but (in my eyes)a false statement. I would have chosen for "Energy = Life". Simply because I am still under the strong impression that what you call god, is not selfaware and in no way autonomically capable of thinking or making decisions.
I find the tone set in this excerpt close to repulsive. It actually gave me the creeps.
My impression is that the writers' view is just another one of those fallacies... Although I must admit that I'm kind of "judging a book by its cover" right now.
I clearly stated "..when I try to solve a problem...".
I agree with that statement to a certain extent. But we've already discussed that earlier in this thread.
I'll be more than willing to review any of my believes when confronted with new facts.
Right now, I'm off to bed
Cheers,
Roel
Perhaps you're in need of a faster processor
Yes, but not all events are worthwhile.
And again, just because you accept it as the truth, doesn't mean it is.
Many things are structured in a 3x3 matrix, or 4x4, or 5x5 or 10x10 or 11x18 and so on... That's not necessarily because it has anything to do with Quabalah. Your brain is looking for patterns again; it's a talent we sometimes use too often.
But you are no different. You refuse to accept the possibility that you might be wrong.
You're merely picking out the arguments that confirm your own believes. Just because I don't accept your version of the truth, doesn't mean I'm limiting myself to anything.
Of course. And I'm pretty sure that you're a very good teacher of aerospace engineering... However, teaching other subjects might proof to be a tad more difficult. What you're doing in this thread looks more like preaching, rather than teaching. And since I assume you actually do want to teach me something, I hope you use this feedback to become a better teacher. Besides, you need someone to keep you in balance and on this board that someone might just happen to be me /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And still I say that we were not meant to have this discussion. The fact that we're having this conversation is totally based on coincedence. And again, that's the fundemental difference between my thinking and yours. You should think about the possibility that there are some things that do not serve a specific purpose.
You totally missed the essence of what I was trying to get across. If indeed the solution turns out to be simple, you'd be able to give me the simple solution. Since you don't seem to have a simple solution, I think you haven't really found the truth either.
In my opinion that's not a simple solution, but (in my eyes)a false statement. I would have chosen for "Energy = Life". Simply because I am still under the strong impression that what you call god, is not selfaware and in no way autonomically capable of thinking or making decisions.
I find the tone set in this excerpt close to repulsive. It actually gave me the creeps.
My impression is that the writers' view is just another one of those fallacies... Although I must admit that I'm kind of "judging a book by its cover" right now.
I clearly stated "..when I try to solve a problem...".
I agree with that statement to a certain extent. But we've already discussed that earlier in this thread.
I'll be more than willing to review any of my believes when confronted with new facts.
Right now, I'm off to bed
Cheers,
Roel
Roel van Houten
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
I was on my way to a nice warm bed, but I had to reply to this particular passage in your post. I'll reply to the rest of the post later this week.
Anyway. I know for certain that god has never made any attempt whatsoever to communicate with me. That's a plain, simple and irrefutable fact.
I was on my way to a nice warm bed, but I had to reply to this particular passage in your post. I'll reply to the rest of the post later this week.
Anyway. I know for certain that god has never made any attempt whatsoever to communicate with me. That's a plain, simple and irrefutable fact.
RenUnconscious
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
If God were to attempt communication with you, what do you suspect the form would be? a burning bush a huge booming voice from the sky? I have oftened wondered this myself, but I would say just because you were not aware of the attempt does not mean the attempt was never made. Let us say god has never communicated with you as far as you know, and that is a plain simple irrefutable fact. ya follow?
If God were to attempt communication with you, what do you suspect the form would be? a burning bush a huge booming voice from the sky? I have oftened wondered this myself, but I would say just because you were not aware of the attempt does not mean the attempt was never made. Let us say god has never communicated with you as far as you know, and that is a plain simple irrefutable fact. ya follow?
Roel van Houten
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
Okay, there are two sides to this story.
1) If we look at the classic image of god, we can easily say he's never made an attempt to communicate with me. God in the traditional sense is supposed to be omnipotent. Therefore any attempt he makes, is succesful by definition. I've never noticed anything whatsoever, so obviously he has never tried.
2) You could argue that the classic image of god is inaccurate and that he did try to communicate with me, but somehow failed. That means he's (1) incapable of communicating, (2) doesn't wish to communicate with me, or (3) he demands an effort from me. In all three cases he did not make an attempt to actually communcicate with me.
Roel
Okay, there are two sides to this story.
1) If we look at the classic image of god, we can easily say he's never made an attempt to communicate with me. God in the traditional sense is supposed to be omnipotent. Therefore any attempt he makes, is succesful by definition. I've never noticed anything whatsoever, so obviously he has never tried.
2) You could argue that the classic image of god is inaccurate and that he did try to communicate with me, but somehow failed. That means he's (1) incapable of communicating, (2) doesn't wish to communicate with me, or (3) he demands an effort from me. In all three cases he did not make an attempt to actually communcicate with me.
Roel
Roel van Houten
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
Oh yes, I agree. The most common misconception about god is that people actually believe he exists.
The most common misconception about life is that god created it.
Sure...
These are indeed fallacies about god. Why? Because, in my view, he doesn't exist in the first place.
That's not really a fallacy. We are seperate from each other. The fact that we are all part of this "sea of energy" we've been discussing, does not mean we are not seperate. It's the way that energy is "molded" into different "shapes" that makes us seperate from eachother.
That's a fallacy indeed. There is enough, but it is unequally divided.
It depends on how you look at things. There are two sides to this concept: For instance, I consider myself to be a much better human being than Hitler. Ironically that is - in a way - the same mistake he made. So yes, in a way it is a fallacy to think that some human beings are better than other human beings. After all people who believe in god are just as good as people who don't believe
If anyone or anything is capable of creating an entire universe, is it too much to ask to communicate in such a way that I can sense it? Even a dog does a better job communicating with me. So lets change this statement to: God does not exist and is only real to those who want to believe.
I did not reply to some of the other statements, either because I agree or I don't find them interesting. However, this statement is obviously NON-FUNCTIONAL and therefore wrong
Think of it... if there is no right and wrong, how can there be fallacies????? Geesh.
Not on my shift
Your personality and knowledge are in your brain. In my view, that's the only place they can reside. When you die, your brain no longer holds this information and consequently your knowledge and personality are lost.
Let's not try, shall we?
Yet, I can create and achieve things, I can give and receive love and I can be happy... All that without the help from a (non-existent) creator.
Sigh. There's the thin thread between science and spirituality again.
At least scientific knowledge is shared in a comprehensible way. What new facts have we learned from the Quabalah that haven't already been discovered by science? If the Quabalah really holds so many mystical truths, then why don't the people who understand these ancient texts share this information so that we can all learn from it.
The answer is probably "patterns". Whenever a scientist makes a new discovery, a Quabalist will find a matching pattern somewhere and say "oh look, it was here all the time, right under our nose". I might be wrong in thinking so, but you haven't been able to paint a different picture for me.
Oh yes, I agree. The most common misconception about god is that people actually believe he exists.
The most common misconception about life is that god created it.
Sure...
These are indeed fallacies about god. Why? Because, in my view, he doesn't exist in the first place.
That's not really a fallacy. We are seperate from each other. The fact that we are all part of this "sea of energy" we've been discussing, does not mean we are not seperate. It's the way that energy is "molded" into different "shapes" that makes us seperate from eachother.
That's a fallacy indeed. There is enough, but it is unequally divided.
It depends on how you look at things. There are two sides to this concept: For instance, I consider myself to be a much better human being than Hitler. Ironically that is - in a way - the same mistake he made. So yes, in a way it is a fallacy to think that some human beings are better than other human beings. After all people who believe in god are just as good as people who don't believe
If anyone or anything is capable of creating an entire universe, is it too much to ask to communicate in such a way that I can sense it? Even a dog does a better job communicating with me. So lets change this statement to: God does not exist and is only real to those who want to believe.
I did not reply to some of the other statements, either because I agree or I don't find them interesting. However, this statement is obviously NON-FUNCTIONAL and therefore wrong
Think of it... if there is no right and wrong, how can there be fallacies????? Geesh.
Not on my shift
Let's not try, shall we?
Yet, I can create and achieve things, I can give and receive love and I can be happy... All that without the help from a (non-existent) creator.
Sigh. There's the thin thread between science and spirituality again.
At least scientific knowledge is shared in a comprehensible way. What new facts have we learned from the Quabalah that haven't already been discovered by science? If the Quabalah really holds so many mystical truths, then why don't the people who understand these ancient texts share this information so that we can all learn from it.
The answer is probably "patterns". Whenever a scientist makes a new discovery, a Quabalist will find a matching pattern somewhere and say "oh look, it was here all the time, right under our nose". I might be wrong in thinking so, but you haven't been able to paint a different picture for me.
J_K_Jizzle
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
I agree with most of your post. If any of you are wondering, I am agnostic.
I've done a pretty good job so far.
Now when you say evolving my knowledge, do you really mean changing my religious beliefs (or lack thereof), to comply with yours? Just wondering.
Sadly they seem to find a way to blend together, especially among certain members of this board.
I agree with most of your post. If any of you are wondering, I am agnostic.
I've done a pretty good job so far.
Now when you say evolving my knowledge, do you really mean changing my religious beliefs (or lack thereof), to comply with yours? Just wondering.
Sadly they seem to find a way to blend together, especially among certain members of this board.
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
WELCOME BACK, my friend!
Roel, your posts always seem to call to me to answer in reverse order, as the reverse order of your arguments always provide the best means to make my points for the view of Qabalistic math/science that I am extolling (even if I am not teaching, as you say). So here we go... in reverse! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
But there is an equal and opposite "spiral outward" force of Energy. These are the "two sides" that underly all physical concepts which you hold so dear. Energy as a Form (Matter) in an inward spiraling frequency. Energy as Force (Motion) is an outward spiraling frequency. It can be described mathematically, and is hard to disprove because of the inherent balance of Matter in Motion. It is what we perceive as the illusion of linear, 1-dimensional Time!!!!!
It lives in all of us. And even though I spar with some on this board, I want to thank you ALL because I learn from ALL. Learning information is a big part of Creation. Why do you think our human culture is so focused on INFORMATION and its processing? It's not just a passing fad...it is part of our Evolution.
Enjoy! And how about some pics of your new place??? I just got my guest bath redone with a jacuzzi tub and marble shower surround. Pretty sweet...an evolution in bathing!
RMT
WELCOME BACK, my friend!
Roel, your posts always seem to call to me to answer in reverse order, as the reverse order of your arguments always provide the best means to make my points for the view of Qabalistic math/science that I am extolling (even if I am not teaching, as you say). So here we go... in reverse! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
And yet you have not been able to debunk the scientific/mathematic description of triplex Massive SpaceTime, have you? I can honestly say you have not looked deep enough at the application of non-linear maths to 3x3 geometric structures. It is quite interesting...
Which can be described by mathematics... which is the language of science. Thank you very much for describing part of the scientific process which I have used to reach my theory of the non-linear, multi-dimensional maths of the Qabalah.
Ha. If you only knew how often that was not true. How comprehensible do YOU think tensor mathematics is? Do you have a strong comprehension of that form of science? Cuz I give this as just one example....over 97% of people in the world do not. Many people know what vectors are, but not many people understand vectors on steroids, which is what tensors are. There is much about science that the average man cannot comprehend...yet sometimes they think they comprehend it. And from this kind of misguided and incorrect understanding of science is borne "conspiracy theories" all over the net! And wacky stories like John Titor... :D
So are you saying there is NO force of Creation that is in you, nor in all the other people and entities that have helped create your personal 3-D Timeline? Because if you wish to understand the deeper, non-linear aspects of 3-D Time, you will have to come to grips with certain facts of Creation and how it works.
Are you sure they don't go anywhere? If you are sure, then surely you could describe so mathematically and scientifically, right?
Hmmm. So are you certain and positive that this information that comprises these things in your brain cannot be transmitted over some medium (which you might not sense in the emptiness of Space) so as to escape, or transcend your body? Are you really so certain that Mind, Soul, and/or Spirit cannot escape from the physical Body?
Geesh! Don't take this part of the statement so literally! There is no ABSOLUTE right or wrong. Focus instead on the Functional/Non-Functional statement. Of course there is right/wrong in a RELATIVE sense. There is my right/wrong, and there is your right/wrong. The distinction is based upon "what works for me" (my right). Each of us bases our own views of right/wrong on what works for us. This is precisely the functional argument for life and logic. If it works, use it. If it doesn't, don't. That is why God doesn't give a sh-[censored] if you ever believe in She/He/It. (interesting how that last triplex sounds a lot like the word that I just self-censored, eh?)
Perhaps... your Creator wants you to investigate means of communication that are way beyond what your limited, conscious, physical self can easily perceive? If you never extend yourself beyond your little cocoon (strive to understand what is beyond your senses and linear logic based on those senses) then you will never learn about those energy configurations beyond your limited bandwidth. There is communication and information interaction across the barrier we call lightspeed. But it is not easy to get to. God wants you to learn to communicate at the level of Creation, which is why he is not just going to appear in your new apartment, and sit on the couch and chat with you over coffee! God can do whatever God wants, and if he wants to make you stretch your communication abilities, he doesn't have to make it easy on you. In fact, the reward is inherent in the journey of discovery....a time-honored truth.
There are two sides to all concepts. This is another fundamental truth that Qabalah is trying to teach us. Energy forms "spiral inward" in a pattern that follows the natural numbers.... 4.....3.....2......1.....and then there is Zero. You know who that is, right?
I'm afraid I can only agree with you in the physical realm of frequency bandwidth that our bodies and senses permit us to perceive. The thought that we are separate is, indeed, a fallacy when you are able to integrate your physical-sensing body/mind with your aphysical-Creating soul/spirit. Maybe someday you will get beyond the body/mind and then you will understand. And I do not mean to demean you or belittle you in saying this. I just know you are not "there" yet. I did not "get there" until after I was 33, myself.
Only because you don't seem to want to look deeper. From all of your posts, Roel, I think I have a pretty good idea that you only want to classify God in the terms that many tired, old religions want to ascribe to God. It seems you don't wish to actively try to merge a spiritual theory of a Creator with a scientific theory of the Created. But rest assured, this is where the human consciousness is going...just because you don't see it or accept it does not mean others don't. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you ever want to know how God, Creation, is expressed via Matrix Energy, then you know there are plenty of sources to help you.
Nothing happens without Intent to Create, this I can assure you. Not You. Not Me. Not the rest of Creation. All things come into Being because there is a Will to Create.
It lives in all of us. And even though I spar with some on this board, I want to thank you ALL because I learn from ALL. Learning information is a big part of Creation. Why do you think our human culture is so focused on INFORMATION and its processing? It's not just a passing fad...it is part of our Evolution.
Enjoy! And how about some pics of your new place??? I just got my guest bath redone with a jacuzzi tub and marble shower surround. Pretty sweet...an evolution in bathing!
RMT
- Thread starter
- #898
KerrTexas
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
For most of history those who did try to pass on the knowledge, were tortured and killed. The information had to be encoded and written in formats that still could be given to the following generations, but also conform to any particular political climate of the time.
Time and study also is required to ascend through the Tree of Life. We can leave behind our accounts of our experiences and what is learned to a point, the rest is for you to discover for yourself.
Even in here, as RainmanTime and myself place(d) information in this Thread, it is rejected and ridiculed. So the result is that we stop passing on what we have experienced and get together outside the negativity and continue the process of discovery with those others whom have "paid their dues".
( Yeah, how about some pictures of your new pad, man! )
For most of history those who did try to pass on the knowledge, were tortured and killed. The information had to be encoded and written in formats that still could be given to the following generations, but also conform to any particular political climate of the time.
Time and study also is required to ascend through the Tree of Life. We can leave behind our accounts of our experiences and what is learned to a point, the rest is for you to discover for yourself.
Even in here, as RainmanTime and myself place(d) information in this Thread, it is rejected and ridiculed. So the result is that we stop passing on what we have experienced and get together outside the negativity and continue the process of discovery with those others whom have "paid their dues".
( Yeah, how about some pictures of your new pad, man! )
Roel van Houten
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
True. And I don't think that will ever happen. I'm simply not capable enough to debunk any of your scientific or mathematic descriptions. BUT, you haven't been able to demonstrate that your science is inextricably linked to the existence of a self-aware creator. That's what I mean when I'm talking about "the thin thread between science and spirituality".
You will find an answer for anything in the Quabalah, but that's only because you are so eager to find it there. Your theory will stand, even if you take Quabalah out of the equation.
If you reread the paragraph you will notice that I am trying to get across that scientific knowledge is being shared. So although you might claim that many scientific facts can be found in ancient texts, they never gather new facts with help of these texts. It was definitely not my intention to talk about tensor mathematics or how comprehensible it is.
It is ironic though that you managed to give a very simple and rudimentary definition of tensors.
If that's what you think I am saying, you haven't been reading. Sure, there is a creative force in me. My brain allows me to create and manipulate things. Other people can do the same and affect my 3D-timeline. I'm simply stating that there was no self-aware creator that created life as we know it.
During our lives we consume energy to do certain things. The construction of our brain, for instance, allows us to process information and to store it in our memory. When we come to the point where we are unable to consume energy, our brain loses its function and the information in it is lost. Even if this information can leave our brain, it will be useless without something to process it with. I like to compare it to an oil pipe that ends in the middle of a sea. The oil flows out and becomes useless because there is nothing to process it with.
Just as sure as you are certain that they can escape.
So now I am the one taking statements too literally?
Yes, but we also have a common sense of what's right and what's wrong. Anyway, the statement does not seem very significant to me. It's even a bit silly if you ask me. Replacing "right" and "wrong" with different descriptions is only making things unecessarily complicated.
Or perhaps there is no creator.
If someone wants me to learn Chinese, the best thing he can do is communicate in Chinese. But at some point he will have to give me some translations in English or Dutch, or else I will never understand the language.
Instead of making up excuses why I am unable to communciate with our so-called creator, why don't you explore the possibility that this creator might not exist?
Wrong. There's an infinite number of sides I can assign to concepts, only in this case I decided to assign only two. I could have come up with 1 or 3 sides, but the fact that there are two sides is based solely on a coincedence.
Obviously not. If god "wants" to communicate with me, he's clearly not getting things his way.
I have always considered god a big zero. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Zero is also the number of gods that actually exist.
Either that, or you've been walking the wrong path all along. The problem is that you think you're already there, which - regardless of what you believe - probably narrows YOUR scope.
Even if that really were the case, it would only be because you behave no different from the guy that wants to convert me when I'm waiting for my tram on Central Station. It's really quite staggering how a smart man like yourself can lower his standards by saying "no matter what you believe, I'm right anyway". Because that's what you've been doing the entire thread.
I'm still quite busy finishing my new place, hence the late hour postings
As soon as I allow myself some time to take pictures, you'll be the first to know.
Kind regards,
Roel
True. And I don't think that will ever happen. I'm simply not capable enough to debunk any of your scientific or mathematic descriptions. BUT, you haven't been able to demonstrate that your science is inextricably linked to the existence of a self-aware creator. That's what I mean when I'm talking about "the thin thread between science and spirituality".
You will find an answer for anything in the Quabalah, but that's only because you are so eager to find it there. Your theory will stand, even if you take Quabalah out of the equation.
If you reread the paragraph you will notice that I am trying to get across that scientific knowledge is being shared. So although you might claim that many scientific facts can be found in ancient texts, they never gather new facts with help of these texts. It was definitely not my intention to talk about tensor mathematics or how comprehensible it is.
It is ironic though that you managed to give a very simple and rudimentary definition of tensors.
If that's what you think I am saying, you haven't been reading. Sure, there is a creative force in me. My brain allows me to create and manipulate things. Other people can do the same and affect my 3D-timeline. I'm simply stating that there was no self-aware creator that created life as we know it.
During our lives we consume energy to do certain things. The construction of our brain, for instance, allows us to process information and to store it in our memory. When we come to the point where we are unable to consume energy, our brain loses its function and the information in it is lost. Even if this information can leave our brain, it will be useless without something to process it with. I like to compare it to an oil pipe that ends in the middle of a sea. The oil flows out and becomes useless because there is nothing to process it with.
Just as sure as you are certain that they can escape.
So now I am the one taking statements too literally?
Yes, but we also have a common sense of what's right and what's wrong. Anyway, the statement does not seem very significant to me. It's even a bit silly if you ask me. Replacing "right" and "wrong" with different descriptions is only making things unecessarily complicated.
Or perhaps there is no creator.
If someone wants me to learn Chinese, the best thing he can do is communicate in Chinese. But at some point he will have to give me some translations in English or Dutch, or else I will never understand the language.
Instead of making up excuses why I am unable to communciate with our so-called creator, why don't you explore the possibility that this creator might not exist?
Wrong. There's an infinite number of sides I can assign to concepts, only in this case I decided to assign only two. I could have come up with 1 or 3 sides, but the fact that there are two sides is based solely on a coincedence.
Obviously not. If god "wants" to communicate with me, he's clearly not getting things his way.
I have always considered god a big zero. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Zero is also the number of gods that actually exist.
Either that, or you've been walking the wrong path all along. The problem is that you think you're already there, which - regardless of what you believe - probably narrows YOUR scope.
Even if that really were the case, it would only be because you behave no different from the guy that wants to convert me when I'm waiting for my tram on Central Station. It's really quite staggering how a smart man like yourself can lower his standards by saying "no matter what you believe, I'm right anyway". Because that's what you've been doing the entire thread.
I'm still quite busy finishing my new place, hence the late hour postings
Kind regards,
Roel
Roel van Houten
Timekeeper
Re: Fallacies About God & Life
Uhm, that's hardly torture, is it? I don't think you and Ray are being ridiculed any more than I am. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Soon, soon /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Uhm, that's hardly torture, is it? I don't think you and Ray are being ridiculed any more than I am. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Soon, soon /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
