God?

[KerrTexas]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

Uhm, that's hardly torture, is it? I don't think you and Ray are being ridiculed any more than I am.

True enough. But it is somewhat of a torment when using an old keyboard that should have been retired several years ago. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[creedo299]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

Saying>It wasn't because he was beautiful.

Yes'.. all of the girls liked him, as he was cute.But him doing the surf and the shimmy outside of that fast-food restaurant, while people came to enjoy the 50s aire, was not bringing them back.

It was them in the distance, that his Crapulence saw the Giant Mud-ball rolling in from a distance, just as that other movie, "Well the Rhinoceros and the two wicked step-sister".

For a second his look at the Timbo-Tecky-Terminatorm TTA for short and the Los Angles Blond Version of the Marquis De Sad, with a perm and thought,"Well both these guys in wigs and falsies"??Naaa, couldn't be?!

God thought well of the program, even fixed a few, that wandered down to his office.

But when it came time to level the playing field, even though Plato now knew card tricks, coming out of his cave, well' he had to let fate do its thing.

The shy lady with the ice cub trays, was right after all. Better save dem bicycle ties and pumps.

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

During our lives we consume energy to do certain things. The construction of our brain, for instance, allows us to process information and to store it in our memory. When we come to the point where we are unable to consume energy, our brain loses its function and the information in it is lost. Even if this information can leave our brain, it will be useless without something to process it with.

And again I must point out that your sureity that information is lost is based on a strictly materialist view of the universe. This is probably your biggest error, for you have really not looked into what I have been saying about the equivalence of energy and information. Where you would probably agree with the conversation of energy, because it has been proven in materialist ways, you would err if you did not also believe in the conservation of information.

So, you resist in reading any of the Neale Donald Walsch "Conversations With God" books. That's fine. How about I give you a book that tells the same story, but it was written by a PhD in physics? Would you then agree to read this book? (I am hoping you are not just shutting-out information that does not agree with your current, materialist, worldview).

The book is The Self-Aware Universe by Amit Goswami. Now here is a man who is MUCH more qualified to talk about physics and what science has been discovering than I am. So don't take my word for it... look into what another person of science (with a deep grounding in quantum physics) is saying.

And before you even spend any money on the book, why not check out an interview with the author? There are many powerful statements just in this interview that are in the same vein as what I have been talking about in this thread. And, in fact, he cites scientific evidence and ties in these theories with the issues surrounding quantum physics. Since you seem to find yourself so good at dismissing what I am saying on this topic, maybe you'd like to try your hand at explaining how what Amit is describing is untrue?

Instead of making up excuses why I am unable to communciate with our so-called creator, why don't you explore the possibility that this creator might not exist?

Because I have experienced something that you, currently, do not even believe is possible, much less real. I have experienced the trascendence that Dr. Goswami describes.

You see, Roel, your argument here is very shallow, indeed. There is little difference between your statement above and a situation where I may have seen some previously unknown species, and you had not. Since I had experienced this, and you had not, I am sure you can see just how silly I would find a statement like "why don't you explore the possibility that this creature might not exist?" Why on earth (and off, for that matter) would I be interested in letting someone who has not experienced something that I have try to convince me that what I have experienced does not exist?

And yet...there is still another reason why I will not "explore the possibility" as you have put it: It is based on the fact that you cannot prove your negative view. Your entire argument, all that you can muster on this topic, reduces to something along the lines of "Well, I've never seen any kind of God. Therefore, no God exists."

Just because you CHOOSE to not experience God is no indicator that God does not exist. It is a limiting belief based on a negative view that, as you have admitted, cannot be proven.

RMT

 

[Roel van Houten]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

you would err if you did not also believe in the conservation of information.

Once you die, there's nothing left to process the information with. Think about the oil example I gave earlier in this thread. Once the oil flows from the pipe into the sea, the oil looses its original function. Information flows into the sea of energy and loses its coherence and significance along the way. So yes, I do believe that in some way our physical form is an essential part of our selfawareness.

(I am hoping you are not just shutting-out information that does not agree with your current, materialist, worldview).

No, not at all. The reason why I do not wish to read "Conversations with God" is because of the apalling self-righteous tone that was very present in the excerpt. I consider myself open-minded, but at the same time very down to earth. I refuse to unthinkingly accept ideas that are contrary to my believes. Especially when the writer, in this case, thinks he knows it all.

The Self-Aware Universe

The title sounds more promising to begin with, so - after reading the interview - I might give this one a try. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Why on earth (and off, for that matter) would I be interested in letting someone who has not experienced something that I have try to convince me that what I have experienced does not exist?

Fair enough. Same applies to me though. You can say it's there, but as long as I don't experience it, you can't expect me to believe you.

Your entire argument, all that you can muster on this topic, reduces to something along the lines of "Well, I've never seen any kind of God. Therefore, no God exists."

Basically, yes. But let me rephrase that. In 28 years, none of my senses have been able to even sense a slight indication of what you claim is there.

Although you might think differently, your argument is just as strong or weak as mine. All you do is provide valid scientific facts or theories and blindly throw them in the blender along with some spiritual ingredients. And when I disagree, you'll just say something like "It doesn't matter what you think, I'm right anyway.. you'll find out someday".

Just because you CHOOSE to not experience God is no indicator that God does not exist. It is a limiting belief based on a negative view that, as you have admitted, cannot be proven.

It's not a choice. I just don't experience it. Also, it's not limiting at all... You are limiting yourself to the hallucination you have tricked yourself into believing.


Kind regards,

Roel

 

[nicknack]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

Hi all, I haven't been in the forum for a long time. I'm glad to say I've finally received my results for my exam, but they were not too good.

It seems like the arguement about never ends, does it? It goes in one cycle of meaningless answers, rhetorical questions and paradoxes.

It is strange that I believe in a God since he never appeared to me, spoke to me, or even came to me in a church. Maybe I'm gullible, maybe I use God as a crutch. But it doesn't matter actually. It's all just about what you believe in. It doesn't matter whether is a God or not. It's up to anyone to believe to what extent does God exist and what is He. Someday, when we all die, we might or will know anyway. Until then, keep your minds open!

 

[RenUnconscious]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

But it wouldn't be something apart from the universe, some supreme governing mind

So a Universal consciousness is Part of the Universe and you wouldn't consider that a Divine Being. Perhaps the Universe itself is the mind of God on a Macro scale and we are just the little electrons that go flying about in his/its brain.

All I know is that life doesn't just Form from Amino Acids and Proteins in the right environment or not, DNA does not just come together to form single celled organisms. No scientist in the world can create life only duplicate or clone it or alter it in some way.

 

[RenUnconscious]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

But the origin of life on the early Earth was truly a Grand Experiment. A WHOLE PLANET, seeded by comets with complex organic molecules forged in the heart of a star, then given hundreds of millions of years for this brew to percolate and be struck by billions of lightning bolts. Seriously, it's a far cry from scientists in a lab. Do you fully comprehend the magnitude of the experiment that was life's origin? A whole planet, mind you. Hundreds of millions of years. That much time and space, there's no requirement for intelligent design. It's a matter of pure probability. Our scientists have seen no success simply because their facilities are too limited.

This is a pretty accurate description. Except it was more like Billions of years, and none of which would have even been possible were it not for the explosion of some supernova over 4.5 billion years ago, and billions of lightning bolts are a very powerful force indeed. But where you see science in this regard, and think I do not, I continue to ask, Where'd that come from, why did that happen, why did this planet form at a distance almost perfectly far enough from its star to support life. what must have been the extreme chain reaction of events that brought all of this about.

 

[iridium]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

But the origin of life on the early Earth was truly a Grand Experiment. A WHOLE PLANET, seeded by comets with complex organic molecules forged in the heart of a star, then given hundreds of millions of years for this brew to percolate and be struck by billions of lightning bolts. Seriously, it's a far cry from scientists in a lab. Do you fully comprehend the magnitude of the experiment that was life's origin? A whole planet, mind you. Hundreds of millions of years. That much time and space, there's no requirement for intelligent design. It's a matter of pure probability. Our scientists have seen no success simply because their facilities are too limited.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a pretty accurate description. Except it was more like Billions of years, and none of which would have even been possible were it not for the explosion of some supernova over 4.5 billion years ago, and billions of lightning bolts are a very powerful force indeed. But where you see science in this regard, and think I do not, I continue to ask, Where'd that come from, why did that happen, why did this planet form at a distance almost perfectly far enough from its star to support life. what must have been the extreme chain reaction of events that brought all of this about.

If the end goal was to "simply" create life, I could maybe fool myself into thinking this is possible. Let's say that the goal would be to create an amoeba. Then, I maybe could believe that with billions of years, and billions of lightning bolts, and perfect conditions that an amoeba could "appear". But we aren't talking about amoebas...we're talking about mulit-level, complex, CONSCIOUS, life. That my friends, would take an eternity to create by chance, if it was even possible.

No, for me, it takes more faith to trust in chance, than God.

Disclaimer: I understand that this thread has been an ongoing dialogue between numerous people here on the boards. Who is this noob, come in here and bust out his opinion on page 31?!?!? I apologize if it looks like that...and ask permission to participate in the discussion going forward. I am no scientist. I consider myself a free thinker, but my veiws are enhanced by the lense of my faith. So, I may repeat something that someone else has already said. I may lean on evidences that you don't accept as valid. But I would like to share my view on this subject.

Thanks.

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

Feel free to contribute anything you wish, it is an open forum. I know that it may not solve the answer of the existence of God or not, but the inspirations generated within this thread, I believe to be of tremendous benefit to all who participate.

I have ended up researching ( in depth ) alot of subjects I normally wouldnt have bothered to seek out. The links supplied by Trollface and others have been very informative.

I also enjoy the debate, as the skills learned have helped in the work place with discussions with the boss. Discussing this with others of whom are very intelligent and are fantastic at writing their posts causes one to raise the bar with ones own postings.

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

There seem to be many factors that would be beyond mere chance to create all that exists. The variation by even a few digits either way in many areas would have caused a collapse of creation as we know it to be.

It seems very unlikely that not only would creation take place under exact conditions ( randomly ), but then be maintained as well. The exact variations are stated elsewhere in this thread.

It is also interesting that in the Bible God claims that the wisdom of this world is foolish.

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness [Greek: stupidity] with God. (I Cor. 3:19).

God isnt an intellectual endeavor, but something accepted through the heart. God also addresses this with ...

"The FOOL has said in his heart , ‘There IS NO God’" (Psalm 53:1).

and Jesus added later...

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT ; and hearing they HEAR NOT , neither do they UNDERSTAND ....[For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart..."

The Kabballah is the only discipline I have discovered that deals with the scientific ascpects of Biblical Scriptures. Yet, those who ask for proof of God refuse to research anything further than those tid-bits that fall into their laps.

I wouldnt expect anyone to believe that we would post the entire library of texts from Kabballah in this forum, it would take up way too much space. So the alternative is to start reading the related texts available on-line.

Understanding the concepts within the Kabballah also takes time, it isnt a quick ah-ha! I've got all the answers! Rainman and Myself have been studying the Kabballah for years and to try and impart that knowledge in a forum such as this probably wont happen. We just hope that it arouses enough curiosity to see for yourself.

So it is up to those who WANT to know to do their homework and gain an understanding on their own.

Some quotes from the Scriptures as food for thought...

""I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded you, though you have not known me."" (Isaiah 45:5).

"""Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that THINGS which are seen were NOT made of things which DO APPEAR"" (Heb. 11:2).

""""I never knew you! Depart from Me..." (Mat. 7:23).

""" Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."""( Colossians 2:8 )

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

...And I think that idea is just as beautiful, heartening, and meaningful as the idea of a supreme creator. Anyone agree? Vehemently disagree? Think we're all a bunch of squabbling idiots? Please add your input.

Through Scripture and experiences of many, including myself, God has told us He exists. So then it becomes a point of believing what He has said, in the past and present, or if He really said it.

Are we to believe the Scriptures or not?

I wasnt the one to come up with the idea of an omnipresent God, that was done long ago. I accompianed my parents to a Russian Orthodox Church almost every Sunday, and my earliest memories are of that Church. So I am certain that that had an impact on my belief system.

The things as said by God ( or the accounts of what was said ) certainly resulted in wanting to know if it was true or not. To be told that if you didnt accept God as the one and only God, and didnt abide within His will, you would be doomed caused me to figure that it may be worth a looksee.

The First question I needed to satisfy was whether or not God existed. This was satisfied through several methods and experiences. The second question I had to answer was the question of eternal damnation. I felt at that time that I did not want to be suprised too late with..." Whoops, guess God wasnt kidding around! May I wear an asbestos suit before I go into the Lake of Fire, God? "

After satisfying the first question, the answer to the second one was tough. This resulted in many more questions.

The answer to the second question has turned out to be the hardest one to discover. My feeling about it is that God will NOT send anyone to an eternal damnation. I ran across someone elses question that I contemplate upon even to this day...

" If God is the all-ever-so-powerful God, nothing in creation stronger than He, if Satan ends up taking 2/3 of humanity to a Lake of Fire for an eternity, then who was the victor and the more persuasive between the two?"

So, I am really leaning towards the ideal that no one will accompany Satan to any Lake of fire for an eternity of damnation. In a paper written by someone who really understands the original scriptures in the languages they were written, has claimed that Satan will not be destroyed, but his purpose of bringing evil will be ANULLED!

Anyway, in trying to answer both questions, I experienced many different Churches and participated in many different faiths services. Was still confused. So participated in the occult, and did indeed discover many valuable 'tid-bits' of knowledge and discipline.

But this all "felt" wrong. Not intellectually, but in my heart. The mind loved it. The practices are based on such logical disciplines, the mind really does latch onto the methodology of those "schools".

One "school" led me to the Kabballah, an intellectual dream come true. Hours can be spent studying the texts related to the Tree of Life. But in time, even this felt not quite right.

I returned to reading the New Testament and an understanding hit me like a bolt of lightening out of the sky. The Word actually did seem to come alive, as is described by many as ...The Living Word.

 

[iridium]

Re: Fallacies About God & Life

An individual, omnipotent god is only necessary in a philosophy which assumes that the universe is finite in space, time, and number. Expand any of these characteristics to infinity and all possibilities are not only probable, but in fact inevitable. And I think that idea is just as beautiful, heartening, and meaningful as the idea of a supreme creator. Anyone agree? Vehemently disagree? Think we're all a bunch of squabbling idiots? Please add your input.

I understand what you're saying about the fact that any of the elements (space, time, number of universes) expanded to infinity could make for the creation of life. But that only answers the question "How?". The former (finite space, time, and number of universes) seen in the context of an omnipotent God answers the questions: "How?" "Why?" and "What's Next?"

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Newsflash - Energy is THE Truth!

In this lengthy thread we really never proved the existence of God or not, even though many "facts" were completley dismissed and/or ignored. However, many concepts were presented that are certainly appropriate to time travel.

The components of the Universe and how they operate. Where the original source may be or whom, is secondary. It has to be agreed that energy is the key. This thread was originally started by merely requesting that a seperate forum be created for those who feel that God plays a role in the operation of existence and theology may have some answers to many questions regarding possible time travel.

Interestingly enough, the idea did not sit well with my good friend Roel ( We are still waiting for pictures of your ..er...new? apartment ), an atheist, so one can guess the outcome of that idea. Thats all my original post was..merely an idea, without any druthers whether it came to be or not.

Apparently this fueled a heated debate that lasted for months. Now that there seems to be a lull in this forum....so here we are again.

Any comments on the following...which is from an earlier post within this monster...

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Newsflash - Energy is THE Truth!

My understanding is not that 0=1. 0 represents non-existence, nothingness. The 1 represents existence. The motion of nothing and existence, the whirling of the two opposites, creates a vibration.

Everything beyond the 1 is merely a reflection. With only 0 and 1 to work with, nothing else can be created beyond the 0 and 1.

No matter what mathematical function you use, you can not get anything beyond 0 and 1. -1 actually is a non-sequiter because if you have 1 of anything and remove it, you have nothing, you have 0.

How do we get a two?

By reflecting the 1. Once we have a reflection of the 1, we can now add 1 + (the reflected) 1 = 2.

However, 2 is only a construct of the original 1 and its reflection. With these two, existence still can not occur. Two can not be used to create depth, so we need to create the 3.

This is done by (original) 1 + ( reflected ) 1 + ( reflected ) 1 = 3.
Again, 3 is only a construct of the original 1 and reflected 1's, nothing more.

With the creation of the 3, we have completed the trinity. A balanced construct that adds dimension to existence.

This is the concept of the 0 and the 1. It is an inescapable truth.

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are no absolute truths


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There is an absolute truth. It is the perceptions that become blurred. If 100 people are looking at the truth, it may be described 100 different ways. But, this has not altered the truth for what it is

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Newsflash - Energy is THE Truth!

How is the creation of two accomplished? Vibration! This vibration is the source of all things. So how can we apply this knowledge to time travel? Is time actually a type of vibration? A specific frequency?

If we are to isolate specific frequencies, I believe that this is where the answer to time travel may be. Time itself merely a by-product of the interaction of all-things. So if we where to create a time-line based on frequencies of what existed at a specific point in time relative to location of all things, I feel that we could replicate the occurances at whatever moment that had a specific value of frequency.

This is also the basic concept of The Merkaba. Using two opposing forces of light and/or energy, and rotating them in opposite directions. The physical shape of the Merkaba would be two tetrahedrons, each pointing in opposite directions. In theory, a place is created within that is seperate from time and space---a vortex if you will.

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Newsflash - Energy is THE Truth!

Wow, this thread dropped way back down the list! Now its back up front! Imagine that!

 

[CAT]

Re: Prophecy

You are right Lordy this is the most fabulous thread!

Its becoming more and more noticable that throughout mankind's history, beliefs accepted as unarguable fact in one age have been discovered to be false in the next. Have you ever wondered which of today's "facts" will be seen by future generations as the "old myths" of the 21st century?

We're taught that life is the result of chance and natural adaptation, but is this the truth, or is it just a "fact" that suits our limited understanding of life?

If evolution occurred, is it really the source of life's creation or is it God's process of creation?

Could evolution be little more than a myth for today that will someday be replaced by a deeper understanding?

What I think is that religion and science may seem opposed, but only in the same sense as that in which my thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything… We don’t need to look out into the cosmos for intelligent life when its evident right here…

One thing I have learned in life so far is that all our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike. Here are some examples why…

Is it our invention or His creation?

Camera (lens, focus, iris, film) / Eye (cornea curves to focus, iris, retina)
Microphone / Ear drum / Amphitheatre shape / Outer ear shape
Pump / Heart / Valves Heart valves
Plumbing and hydraulic systems / Circulatory system
Communication / telephone cables / Spinal cord / nervous system
Ball joint / Shoulder joint
Windshield wiper / Eye lid
Wiper fluid / Tears
Knife / Incisor teeth
Mortar and pestle / Molar teeth
Woodwinds / Voice box
Computer / Electronic circuitry / Brain
Computer program / DNA
Bubble level / Inner ear tubes for balance
Construction crane (jointed arm, scoop) / Arm and hand
Honeycomb reinforcements / Bee's honeycomb
Solar panel (energy from light) / Leaf
Fish hook (reverse barb design) / Bee stinger
Light stick (light from chemical reactions) / Firefly
Airplanes (airfoil wings, hollow struts, tail) / Birds (airfoil wings, hollow bones, tail)
Submarine ballast / Fish (ballast bladder)
Sonar / Bats, dolphins
Paper from wood pulp / Wasp hives
Velcro / Thistle burrs (actually inspired Velcro)
Blu-blocker sunglasses / Orange oil in eagle eyes to improve acuity
Suction cups / Octopus
Inboard propulsion (boats) / Squid
Batteries (electricity from chemicals) / Eel
Navigation by stars / magnetic fields / Bird and butterfly migration
Music / Song birds
Anesthetics / Venoms and poisons
Swim fins, paddles / Webbed feet (frogs, ducks)
Water cooled systems / Sweat glands and perspiration
Core aeration for health of lawns / Worms, insects and moles

Hypodermic syringe / Snake fangs, also mechanism used by viruses to inject into cells
Antibiotic medicines / Immune system
Hydraulic shock absorbers / Knee joints
Dust filter / Nostril hairs
VCR, magnetic storage media / Memory, recording/viewing images
Gyroscope, top / Planetary rotation
Magnets / Lodestone
Internet / Brain, also Society
Mirror / Reflection on water
Wheel / Animals that curl and roll (armadillo)
Plastics (of many varieties and qualities) / Carbon-based life forms
(of bone, cartilage, tissues, transparent lenses, wood, feathers, etc., and all bio-degradable!)

Gasoline (expensive, dirty) / Methane (free, clean)
Barb wire fences / Briar bushes, thorns
Bridge supports and weight distribution / Elephant / Dinosaur skeletal framework
Robots / Humans
Nuclear energy or bomb (fusion) / Lamp / Sun
Electric and propulsion motors / Mechanical components of flagellum of bacteria & protozoan

Theme Parks / Nature / State Parks
Helicopter / Bumblebee / Hummingbird / Maple seed pods
Camouflage clothing / Camouflage skin and fur, chameleons
Armor / Exoskeletons
Movies, cast, film crew, director / Life, people, angels, subconscious
Night lights / street lights / The stars and the moon
Baby formula / Breast milk
Water filtration techniques / Same filtering techniques as found in nature and swamps and rivers - charcoal, silt

Fishing / Angler fish
Sponge (synthetic) / Sponge
Satellite / Moon
Cloning experiments / Reproductive systems, asexual reproduction
Pulleys, fulcrums, and levers / Foot joints and ligaments
Smoke detectors / Noses
Cup / Cupped hands
Greenhouse / Earth
Clock / Solar system
Fishing net / Spider's web
Magnifying glass / Droplet of water
Water filter / Kidneys
Irrigation canals / Roots in plants
Fires set to aid heath in agriculture / Naturally occurring forest fires
Protective environmental suit / Egg shell
Key and lock / Enzyme and related substrate
Suspension bridge / Spider web
Shock absorbing helmet / Woodpecker skull
Fix-a-flat for punctures in tires / Coagulants found in the blood
Smoke screen as a defense / Octopus ink
Fuel & air for mechanical engines / Food & air for biological engines
Chemical warfare / The Bombardier Beetle
Snowshoes / Penguin's feet
Frames of Buildings / Skeleton of living organisms
Weaving in a basket / Weaving in a bird's nest
Medicine / Herbs
Religions with rules about God / A relationship of love with God
Evolution of civilization and technology / Evolution of the universe and life
Beaver dams / Water dams
Dreams / Movies
Circular appearance of sun and moon / Wheel
Pliers, tongs / Lobster/crab claws
Fur coats / Fur coats
Hang gliders / Butterflies
Vitamin pills / Fruits and vegetables
Interlocking teeth of a zipper / Linkages between barbs in feathers
Radiator, heat exchange system / Elephant's ears, blood vessels in a whale's tail

We invent nothing / We simply discover! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Prophecy

The thing that I have become aware of, is that the more you look into the "truths" of all the different "religions" and other "disciplines"...the more similar they become as you weed out the.. er... "stuff"... added over or within the original messages.

Even those who are standing behind evolution, have to answer the question regarding the outcome of life that has had the chance to "evolve" over billions of years. On Earth, we are mere children within our span of evolution, if we admitted to such an origin.

God never has mentioned anywhere that evolution does not or will not occur with His creations. Actually, He seems to be all for it.

We were given a quality by our Father, and just as children do, we have it embedded within us to emulate our parents. God, The Creator, has given of Himself, creation. How, as His children, could we but not do likewise ?

He has provided all the examples to view and study. He has provided us with one fantastic classroom for learning. He even has made allowances for different cultures and sets of beliefs.
He certainly isnt limited by any specific groups ideals on who He is, and what He wants of us.

The following explains it best...

The followers of Jesus came to Him and said, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" He said to the followers, "You were given the secrets about [ the nature ] of heaven. The secrets were not [understood by ] the others. He who has [understood], will have more given to him. He will have even more than enough. But he who has [ understood ] little, will have even that taken away from him.

"This is why I speak to them in parables. They have eyes but they do not see. They have ears but they do not hear and they do not understand. It happened in their lives as Isaiah said it would happen.
He said, 'You hear and hear but do not understand. You look and look but do not see.
They hear very little with their ears.
They have closed their eyes.
If they did not do this, they would see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts. Then they would be changed in their ways, and I would heal them.
I tell you, that many have wanted to see the things you see, but they did not see them. They wanted to hear the things you hear, but they did not hear them".

Regardless of what discipline you hail from, these words apply to all of mankind. The truth has been put before us all, but few choose to see or hear it.

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Prophecy

Dare I dip my toe back in this wonderous thread? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My friends CAT and OvrLrd, I wish to agree with and extend your remarks, for the record. And if I might, at the same Time tie-together other loose ends from several other posts? There is a great deal of Information in this thread. Some of it is overt, and can be simply understood with our usual process of linear induction that we use with language. However, the information in this thread that is overt is but the tip of the iceberg. OvrLrd has said, on more than one occasion, that he has encoded information below the typical level of understanding. And I would put forth that several others have done so, and often without even knowing they were doing it.

It is a plain and simple fact, as shown by our sciences, that the parts of the universe we see are an unbelievably small amount of what is really out there. And the real "trick" then becomes finding a way that we can transcend our limiting physical condition. And for each it must be a personal decision, and a unique "recipe" to make that leap, for making that leap requires being able to consider, cogitate, and comprehend that which is beyond our senses. But while this Information is beyond our limited senses, everything around us that we can see/feel/hear/taste/touch gives us the "basic rules" for how all Energy behaves.

In another thread, I have laid-out the relationships between Force/Momentum and Energy. These are undisputable facts that Science even has shown to be true within our physical realm. I have further put forth a theory of Information as a higher-level metric that is related to Energy and Force/Momentum. I have described how the scientific thruth of this is shown in any closed-loop control system (which the human body is a marvelous design of just such a system) which uses Information to control transformations of Energy amongst different physical forms. Whether or not I am the one to finalize the mathematics that will prove the link between Information and Energy does not concern me, for I know it will become a "fact of life" in the future just as F=ma and E=mc^2 is a fact of life today.

What I am more interested in is what lies BEYOND Information. And in this regard there is perfect confluence with this thread. It has been suggested that "above and beyond" Information is nothing but pure INTENTION. We might also refer to it as Will to Create. One would have a hard time arguing against the fact that each of us, as free human beings, each possess the Will to Create. When each of us creates through the force of our Free Will, we are doing the bidding of our own Creator. The result of any creation can only be judged "good" or "bad" in our limited physical realm. At the realm of Information and above, it is not "good" or "bad"....rather, it simply IS. As in "I AM".

Whether each of us chooses to believe in a God is becoming a bit of a dated question. Whether you believe in God or not, changes are occurring in ourselves as we evolve! Those changes are going to lead to a major shift in our thinking, and how we see the world... just as it has so many times before in our past as we came to understand Force/Momentum, and then Energy, and now Information. So whether or not you believe in God, science is already ushering in a new era where you will have to come to grips with what lies beyond the metric we call Information. You will have to come to grips with the ultimate power in our universe.... The Power Of INTENTION. And as we come to grips with the ultimate Power of Intention, we will, by definition, be re-united with that ultimate field of Intention... just as has been prophesied... we will once again be re-united with God.

And oh what a party THAT will be, eh? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT

 

[zerubbabel]

Re: Prophecy

Hey my friends,

How can I not chime in here!!

Only recently has "limited physical realm" shown itself to be directly related to the timeframe from which it has its entire being. While I cannot "see" the "WORD" spoken at first cause, I CAN see the result of its' passing. Just as a sound becomes a shape which we can "watch" as it passes, so are we the shape of that sound that has as its wavelength the Alpha and the Omega. By this word does our "being" continue to exist and WILL EXIST in some form until Omega utters its next word. The story of Job comes to mind, which portrays an entire lifetime of waveform before a new waveform was established according to the maintenance of a "righteous" existence. Everything he had voiced to God about his entire existence in the first "form" contained a precise rundown of every issue pertinent to man and the results of living a righteous life--namely the "sword" that the "word" brings into all human relationships until it has its complete way--and the "reward" of that holy existence which was: a new home, new servants, new family, and newfound wealth. No "single" experience or lesson could prepare him for the "miracle" of a newly defined existence.

Perhaps this is the main reason that Kaballah or Torah or any other revered writings are so dangerous in young minds and can only be truly understood by a mind that has spanned many decades of focused study and experience. Of course, it is obvious how older folks can laugh at the young and their foolishness--but not too hard, because "Where you are I have been, where I am you will be."

As crazy as Timothy Leary was (tune in, turn on and drop out), he stated early on that he had witnessed something that he called "the city of God". It was a real physical place to him and he understood that we had a part in building the city. He was in awe of it and although he never took it to be a place that was somehow connected to God (he was more of a secular humanist), he did see it as a way of salvation for man or an escape from the earth. I think he pretty much gave up on earth as hopelessly backward and needed to be redone from scratch. A lot of anarchist ideas emerged from this.

I, too, believe in the City of God. I also believe that it will take us away from this earth. From every description of it, it is about 1500 miles square and is TRULY capable of being a TRUE Noah's Ark. I happen to believe that this planet is about to undergo a 1000 year long struggle that will remake the planet into an eventual Garden of Eden again. It is our home and will be made anew. Only by timetraveling will we be able to survive the re-terraforming of our planet. We simply don't have the "time" to travel to a suitable place in "space". Ironically, there is a "Crystal Sun" that is supposedly headed our way from the Orion Galaxy. Science says that it is 1000 years away. Also ironically, in God's time, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. That would put the "crystal city" , in cosmic terms only a day away.

We truly are standing on the edge of eternity. Thirty-five years ago, it was imminent to me. Now, it is at the very door.